The Problems with the Crossover Universe Phenomenon

[jetengine]

The endgame Ronin fight in Japan is all the proof we need Dosney are a-ok with people being stabbed as long as its reasonably bloodless, in the same manner as FOX.

[Beaddle]

The endgame Ronin fight in Japan is all the proof we need Dosney are a-ok with people being stabbed as long as its reasonably bloodless, in the same manner as FOX.

Fox generally has more violence but I care far more about how fox used a more grounded adult serious tone with more realism that is more right and true to marvel comics source material than the disney crossovers movies than is trying to rip off disney original movies.

You keep saying this but its nonsense. They talk about Deadpool because there is suppose to be another Deadpool movie. There isnt gonna be another Logan movie, it's done. They will talk about Wolverine when they recast him and do their own project.
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R rated is more than deadpool. disney is trying to limit it only to deadpool. they dont talk about logan because disney wants to reduce the r rated influence as much as possible.

You keep making up imaginary lines Disney wont cross. Kids killing? Let's see what Kids are in the MCU. Spider-man he killed like 20 outsiders in Endgame and wient Halfsies ON ebony Maw with Ironman. Baby Groot killed atleast one dude in cold blood while he was running away and cut another's toe off, Teenage Groot killed a bunch of Outriders. Shuri doesnt kill anyone and neither does the kid from Ironman 3 that I can recall. There goes Disney messing things up by not having those 2 kids kill anyone yet. Marvel doesnt shy away from killing at all. To randomly draw the line at kids seems like something your pulling out of thin air. The Heroes have straight up murdered people and the couple kids they do have arent killess.on top of everything I mentioned Groots the one who actually killed Ego incase ravagers and Outriders arent enough

All this is in the context of how you look at it. the bottom line is I have directly quoted how disney see kids in their movies. You can't dismiss it anymore than I can. I never said marvel shys away from killing, I said marvel would never portray kids acing in certain ways and X23 is a kid.

[Colossus1980]

In general don't Disney movies always have someone dying, usually parents? Is that really a kid friendly environment?

[Beaddle]

In general don't Disney movies always have someone dying, usually parents? Is that really a kid friendly environment?

I don't think they do. the only time I have ever scene a kid dying in front of their parents are the batman movies of the wayne's death or magneto seeing his mum killed. I think the subject matter here is violence and content.




Also not just violence, kids acting as such.

Now I think about it, you may be referring to star lord from GOTG, I think his situation is more comparable to Pixar's UP

[Midvillian1322]

I don't think they do.. the only time I have ever scene a kid dying in front of their parents are the batman movies of the wayne's death of magneto seeing his mum killed. I think the subject matter here is violence and content.




Also not just violence, kids acting as such.

Now I think about it, you may be referring to star lord from GOTG, I think his situation is more comparable to Pixar's UP

No I think hes talking about Simba watching Mufasa fall to his death and then crying over hid dead body. Bambi's mom getting shot. Quasi was called ugly and almost thrown down a well as a baby. Regardless Disney has a history of killing off Kids parents. **** even Goofys wife was dead in a Goofy movie. That's what Colossus is referring to. Yes Star Lords mom dying in front of him of Cancer, Gamoras parents being executed. All fit a certain trend Disney has for killing parents off. Half the Avengers parents were already dead when we met them. But that has little to do with Disney

[Beaddle]

No I think hes talking about Simba watching Mufasa fall to his death and then crying over hid dead body. Bambi's mom getting shot. Quasi was called ugly and almost thrown down a well as a baby. Regardless Disney has a history of killing off Kids parents. **** even Goofys wife was dead in a Goofy movie.

It's was a much different era. I am even of fan of most of this disney movies. this was the era were it was okay for Pinocchio to smoke and kids to drink beer? that era of disney is long over.

That's what Colossus is referring to. Yes Star Lords mom dying in front of him of Cancer, Gamoras parents being executed. All fit a certain trend Disney has for killing parents off. Half the Avengers parents were already dead when we met them. But that has little to do with Disney

it's how disney wants us to see things, notice nether gamora and thanos or her parents are actually human, the movie barely looks live action and star lord mum is not violently killed in front of him, the story then hardly dwells on it unlike the death of batman and magneto's parents. star lord barely lives with the trauma, Bruce and Eric does for most of the movies and it makes them serious characters to star lord that is not.

[Beaddle]

I don't remember infinity war much so i did a rewatch and I think you got it wrong. garmora does not see her mum die. in typical mcu dumb down writing, thanos distracts her with a shining new toy and tells her to concentrate on it as his armies fires and kills her people. this should not be compared to a young bruce and young magneto. its very different.



Also it is a big deal that gamora and thanos are not human, kids would be less traumatized watching aliens die than actual human children watching their parents die.

[Midvillian1322]

I don't remember infinity war much so i did a rewatch and I think you got it wrong. garmora does not see her mum die. in typical mcu dumb down writing, thanos distracts her with a shining new toy and tells her to concentrate on it as his armies fires and kills her people. this should not be compared to a young bruce and young magneto. its very different.



Also it is a big deal that gamora and thanos are not human, kids would be less traumatized watching aliens die than actual human children watching their parents die.

Wow you all over the place it's not dumbed down Thanos was Distarcing her because while he did horrible things he wasnt a complete monster. It why people who arent you loved the character so much. He had layers. And ok well Star Lord watched his mom die and watched both his dad die (Yondu, and ego). Tony had to watch a a recording of Bucky murdering his parents.

Ok WELL Tony was human and Peter's surrogate father and Peter watched him die with half his face charred up. But feel free to keep moving the goal post when you pull another qualification or excuse out of the ether.

[Jokerz79]

I don't remember infinity war much so i did a rewatch and I think you got it wrong. garmora does not see her mum die. in typical mcu dumb down writing, thanos distracts her with a shining new toy and tells her to concentrate on it as his armies fires and kills her people. this should not be compared to a young bruce and young magneto. its very different.



Also it is a big deal that gamora and thanos are not human, kids would be less traumatized watching aliens die than actual human children watching their parents die.

Going by this argument then Black Panther is better than the X-Men films because BP dealt with the effects of real racism and how POC are treated in Western Society while the X-Men are only an allegory.

[Beaddle]

Wow you all over the place it's not dumbed down Thanos was Distarcing her because while he did horrible things he wasnt a complete monster. It why people who arent you loved the character so much. He had layers. And ok well Star Lord watched his mom die and watched both his dad die (Yondu, and ego). Tony had to watch a a recording of Bucky murdering his parents.

Ok WELL Tony was human and Peter's surrogate father and Peter watched him die with half his face charred up. But feel free to keep moving the goal post when you pull another qualification or excuse out of the ether.

Its dumb down that is why there is a distraction. it applies to how they use humor too in their movies. it is to distract from what could be a difficult moment. the issue was can kids watch their parents die violently, I don't think disney wants that. you can make the case for Shaw in first class who also had layers and was not about taking over the world. you can make the case of the man that shot bruce's parents if it was by accident, fear or not. that is not the issue. the issue was how a kid's live changes because of violence and evil. . this is a theme used to drive Bruce or Magneto, it does not apply to star lord.

Ok WELL Tony was human and Peter's surrogate father and Peter watched him die with half his face charred up. But feel free to keep moving the goal post when you pull another qualification or excuse out of the ether.

Tony is not a kid. geez

Going by this argument then Black Panther is better than the X-Men films because BP dealt with the effects of real racism and how POC are treated in Western Society while the X-Men are only an allegory.

For me you are already quite late, we have already discussed the issue of how black panther failed to have the same depth of how POC and racism are treated or how it is even dealt it. like civil war, mcu is very shallow on politics and allegory unlike x-men. This issue has already been disused on the x-boards. x-fans there dont think mcu does quite well with it.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-movies/page13

It was already discussed here 6 steps back.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...enomenon/page6

I used X2 to match up black panther, even breaking down the screenplays and sub characters themes. black panther does not measure at all to the themes of x2 how how the issue id dealt it or can be resolved, which is sad because BP actually have the POC but that is what you get when Disney movies are derivative and when another marvel movie can at least cover up to 70% of the themes told in the comics instead of following a studio formula.

[XPac]

Fox generally has more violence but I care far more about how fox used a more grounded adult serious tone with more realism that is more right and true to marvel comics source material than the disney crossovers movies than is trying to rip off disney original movies.



R rated is more than deadpool. disney is trying to limit it only to deadpool. they dont talk about logan because disney wants to reduce the r rated influence as much as possible.





All this is in the context of how you look at it. the bottom line is I have directly quoted how disney see kids in their movies. You can't dismiss it anymore than I can. I never said marvel shys away from killing, I said marvel would never portray kids acing in certain ways and X23 is a kid.

Again, Spider-Man is a teenager and he killed like 2 dozen people in End Game. You're arguing that we shouldn't dismiss a quote about Spider-Man, yet you're flat out dismissing what Spider-Man is flat out being shown doing in an actual movie which disproves both the quote and what you're saying. If Spider-Man of all people can kill 20 guys (or whatever the number is, I didn't even bother counting because it was so many), then why the heck should X-23 not have claws?

[Beaddle]

Again, Spider-Man is a teenager and he killed like 2 dozen people in End Game. You're arguing that we shouldn't dismiss a quote about Spider-Man, yet you're flat out dismissing what Spider-Man is flat out being shown doing in an actual movie which disproves both the quote and what you're saying

I think disney finds it easy for spiderman not to punch actual human beings, in a crossover movie. he is better killing ultronites and aliens from space.

. If Spider-Man of all people can kill 20 guys (or whatever the number is, I didn't even bother counting because it was so many), then why the heck should X-23 not have claws?

a 11 year old kid with claws slashing people in a disney movie? I don't see it happening. that is far less believable than new mutants can be horror under disney

there were even rumors wolverine wont be in the mcu movies because he is such a violent character , he was going to get a daredevil kind of show.

[Jokerz79]

Its dumb down that is why there is a distraction. it applies to how they use humor too in their movies. it is to distract from what could be a difficult moment. the issue was can kids watch their parents die violently, I don't think disney wants that. you can make the case for Shaw in first class who also had layers and was not about taking over the world. you can make the case of the man that shot bruce's parents if it was by accident, fear or not. that is not the issue. the issue was how a kid's lives changes because of violence and evil. . this is a theme used to drive Bruce or Magneto, it does apply to star lord.


Tony is not a kid. geez





For me you are already quite late, we have already discussed the issue of how black panther failed to have the same depth of how POC and racism are treated or how it is even dealt it. like civil war, mcu is very shallow on politics and allegory unlike x-men. This issue has already been disused on the x-boards. x-fans there dont think mcu does quite well with it.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-movies/page13

It was already discussed here 6 steps back.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...enomenon/page6

I used X2 to match up black panther, even breaking down the screenplays and sub characters themes. black panther does not measure at all to the themes of x2 how how the issue id dealt it or can be resolved, which is sad because BP actually have the POC but that is what you get when Disney movies are derivative and when another marvel movie can at least cover up to 70% of the themes told in the comics instead of following a studio formula.

X2 has a cool opening scene, the mansion attack scene was cool, and the "coming out" scene was handled well but I think overall BP is the better movie.

The early X-Films don't hold up well IMO they're good but like the Blade movies they are also films of their time and are serverly dated now.

[XPac]

I think disney finds it easy for spiderman not to punch actual human beings, in a crossover movie. he is better killing ultronites and aliens from space.



a 11 year old kid with claws slashing people in a disney movie? I don't see it happening. that is far less believable than new mutants can be horror under disney

there were even rumors wolverine wont be in the mcu movies because he is such a violent character , he was going to get a daredevil kind of show.

Spider-Man throws punches. He punched those guys in the Avengers masks robbing the bank for example. Those were regular humans.

In the comics, X-23 isn't 11 years old. I don't know her exact age, but I'd guess closer to 18 than 11. And yes, I have no problem imaginging a teenager with claws. She's a freaking Wolverine. Of course she'll have claws.

As far as the rumors aobut Wolverine not being used in the MCU... whoever is starting those rumors clearly knows nothing about business. It's freaking Wolverine. Of course he'll be milked. He's a freaking cash cow

[Beaddle]

X2 has a cool opening scene, the mansion attack scene was cool, and the "coming out" scene was handled well but I think overall BP is the better movie.

This is quite the believe of most MCU fans even though by obvious logic, Disney would hate X2 because the adult content overulues the kid friendly content.

The early X-Films don't hold up well IMO they're good but like the Blade movies they are also films of their time and are serverly dated now.

I do still baffle how the x-men films can still look more realistic than the recent mcu movies of 2019 that feel more animated. Singer may be child molester, but he did more good for the comic genre than mcu has ever done for it. his grounded approach serious drama focused style approach in X2 has held up better than the goofy animated derivative mcu movies that hardly holds a candle to the film making style of X2.

I hate to say this but this is just a MCU fan take on xmen movies, I have already seen them do the same with early spiderman films. a real serious film discussion will land many mcu movies in hot water compared to any of the good xmen or comic films from the past.

Like I said 6 pages back, there is barely anything in black panther that was done better. not the screenplay, not the characters, not the themes and not the visuals. zero. I already wrote 2000+ words on it from the actual screenplay of black panther.

Spider-Man throws punches. He punched those guys in the Avengers masks robbing the bank for example. Those were regular humans.

In the comics, X-23 isn't 11 years old. I don't know her exact age, but I'd guess closer to 18 than 11. And yes, I have no problem imaginging a teenager with claws. She's a freaking Wolverine. Of course she'll have claws.

As far as the rumors aobut Wolverine not being used in the MCU... whoever is starting those rumors clearly knows nothing about business. It's freaking Wolverine. Of course he'll be milked. He's a freaking cash cow

If he does show in the MCU, they would tone him down as they did with Spiderman.

MCU is now very easy to predict. Its either they just reject the story like iron man 3, or put the story and change almost everything about it that you have a disney orignal movie like Thor 3 or GOTG. MCU wolverine will fall into one or the other categories.