The Problems with the Crossover Universe Phenomenon

[WebLurker]

I don't remember infinity war much so i did a rewatch and I think you got it wrong. garmora does not see her mum die. in typical mcu dumb down writing, thanos distracts her with a shining new toy and tells her to concentrate on it as his armies fires and kills her people. this should not be compared to a young bruce and young magneto. its very different.

Different focus, and frankly, kind of more chilling, considering that we see Thanos acting like a friend all while having her family murdered.

Also it is a big deal that gamora and thanos are not human, kids would be less traumatized watching aliens die than actual human children watching their parents die.

Yeah, as a '90s kid, I know that to be bull.



So much for an off-screen death being a "dumb down."

Even that aside, Bambi's mom, anyone?

[XPac]

This is quite the believe of most MCU fans even though by obvious logic, Disney would hate X2 because the adult content overulues the kid friendly content.


I do still baffle how the x-men films can still look more realistic than the recent mcu movies of 2019 that feel more animated. Singer may be child molester, but he did more good for the comic genre than mcu has ever done for it. his grounded approach serious drama focused style approach in X2 has held up better than the goofy animated derivative mcu movies that hardly holds a candle to the film making style of X2.

I hate to say this but this is just a MCU fan take on xmen movies, I have already seen them do the same with early spiderman films. a real serious film discussion will land many mcu movies in hot water compared to any of the good xmen or comic films from the past.

Like I said 6 pages back, there is barely anything in black panther that was done better. not the screenplay, not the characters, not the themes and not the visuals. zero. I already wrote 2000+ words on it from the actual screenplay of black panther.






If he does show in the MCU, they would tone him down as they did with Spiderman.

MCU is now very easy to predict. Its either they just reject the story like iron man 3, or put the story and change almost everything about it that you have a disney orignal movie like Thor 3 or GOTG. MCU wolverine will fall into one or the other categories.

I saw MCU Spider-Man kill like 2 dozen people in the span of under a minute... that's more hardcore than pretty much anything we've seen in the comics or any other movie. So again, I'm not worried about that issue.

[Jokerz79]

This is quite the believe of most MCU fans even though by obvious logic, Disney would hate X2 because the adult content overulues the kid friendly content.


I do still baffle how the x-men films can still look more realistic than the recent mcu movies of 2019 that feel more animated. Singer may be child molester, but he did more good for the comic genre than mcu has ever done for it. his grounded approach serious drama focused style approach in X2 has held up better than the goofy animated derivative mcu movies that hardly holds a candle to the film making style of X2.

I hate to say this but this is just a MCU fan take on xmen movies, I have already seen them do the same with early spiderman films. a real serious film discussion will land many mcu movies in hot water compared to any of the good xmen or comic films from the past.

Like I said 6 pages back, there is barely anything in black panther that was done better. not the screenplay, not the characters, not the themes and not the visuals. zero. I already wrote 2000+ words on it from the actual screenplay of black panther.






If he does show in the MCU, they would tone him down as they did with Spiderman.

MCU is now very easy to predict. Its either they just reject the story like iron man 3, or put the story and change almost everything about it that you have a disney orignal movie like Thor 3 or GOTG. MCU wolverine will fall into one or the other categories.

No MCU film holds a candle to films like The Man Who Shot Liberty Valens, The Stranger, The Third Man, On the Water Front, Viva Zapata, Godfather 1 and 2, Goodfellas, Soylent Green, Dawn of the Dead (1978), Do the Right Thing, Colors, or countless others but neither does the XCU films so lets end the XCU vs MCU stuff.

But the MCU films are fun and entertaining and create characters people like and feel for so they're doing something right.


Also many have their own style like Burton's Batman the First Avenger Joe Johnston brought his style to it so much so if you said Rocketeer was canon to it I'd buy it as did Wheaton bring his humor to both his Avengers films. For all the hate Iron Man 3 gets it's a Shane Black film down to adding Christmas and a GOTG film without Gunn seems crazy due to all he brought to the property including the Awesome Mix tape.


Fox have made some great and stylized X films Logan, the Deadpool films, and First Class but the rest are about as homogenize film making as you get and the older Singer films are very dated and restrained with fight chorography and design the only sequence to this day that remains fantastic is Nightcrawler in the White House everything else is almost embarrassing when you consider this was the same time films like Raimi's Spider-Man, the Matrix, and even the Prequels were game changers in effects, designs, and chorography while the X-Men felt like it was stuck in the 90's.

[Beaddle]

No MCU film holds a candle to films like The Man Who Shot Liberty Valens, The Stranger, The Third Man, On the Water Front, Viva Zapata, Godfather 1 and 2, Goodfellas, Soylent Green, Dawn of the Dead (1978), Do the Right Thing, Colors, or countless others but neither does the XCU films so lets end the XCU vs MCU stuff.

But the MCU films are fun and entertaining and create characters people like and feel for so they're doing something right.


Also many have their own style like Burton's Batman the First Avenger Joe Johnston brought his style to it so much so if you said Rocketeer was canon to it I'd buy it as did Wheaton bring his humor to both his Avengers films. For all the hate Iron Man 3 gets it's a Shane Black film down to adding Christmas and a GOTG film without Gunn seems crazy due to all he brought to the property including the Awesome Mix tape.


Fox have made some great and stylized X films Logan, the Deadpool films, and First Class but the rest are about as homogenize film making as you get and the older Singer films are very dated and restrained with fight chorography and design the only sequence to this day that remains fantastic is Nightcrawler in the White House everything else is almost embarrassing when you consider this was the same time films like Raimi's Spider-Man, the Matrix, and even the Prequels were game changers in effects, designs, and chorography while the X-Men felt like it was stuck in the 90's.

No MCU film holds a candle to films like The Man Who Shot Liberty Valens, The Stranger, The Third Man, On the Water Front, Viva Zapata, Godfather 1 and 2, Goodfellas, Soylent Green, Dawn of the Dead (1978), Do the Right Thing, Colors, or countless others but neither does the XCU films so lets end the XCU vs MCU stuff.

But the MCU films are fun and entertaining and create characters people like and feel for so they're doing something right.
.

I can agree with some of this, doing right is a different topic.

Also many have their own style like Burton's Batman the First Avenger Joe Johnston brought his style to it so much so if you said Rocketeer was canon to it I'd buy it as did Wheaton bring his humor to both his Avengers films. For all the hate Iron Man 3 gets it's a Shane Black film down to adding Christmas and a GOTG film without Gunn seems crazy due to all he brought to the property including the Awesome Mix tape.

Already heard this from weblucker, it seem to only work in the mcu kingdom seem their standard is low because it never goes past fun and entertaining. they should be held to higher responsibilities.

[QUOTE]

Singer films are very dated and restrained with fight chorography and design the only sequence to this day that remains fantastic is Nightcrawler in the White House everything else is almost Raimi's Spider-Man, the Matrix, and even the Prequels were game changers in effects, designs, and chorography while the X-Men felt like it was stuck in the 90's.

It still strange that an MCU fan is calling singer movies dated when singer movies looks more polished than the mcu movies that look like animated movies. notice you don't post any video as proof?

embarrassing when you consider this was the same time films like

This is hardly embarrassing. I would rather use this clip to argue with anyone who hates comic movies in general than the MCU movies that look like toy r us commercials.



This is a better choreography to anything in endgame because endgame like I said is too animated for a live action movie and blury too. calling singer films dated? what word can we use for all the mcu movies that used the easiest looking CGI to singer who was smart enough to mostly use practical effects because he liked grounded movies? according to objective film making ethics taught in film school, practical effects factually date less. that is why it is more expensive and the movie that uses them don't have much visual scene unless they have the money to spare. X2 is the best example of this theory.

The logic that black panther or infinity war has a better choreography flaws me. One thing I would say with singer, his choreography are not many because he was a story teller who liked drama more. that comic style remains the go to today for making the best and respected comic movies. Calling it dated is laughable when you consider what the Joker is going to be, anyone still talking about Endgame? Endgame can't even rub shoulders with other mature dystopian drama driven time travel movie like DOFP or Minority report thanks to the cinematic crossover film making style that cares more about cgi and ensembles than story or harder visual style

[Beaddle]

No offense but this looks more dated to X2 even the choreography? Endgame does not look like a live action movie, it's a good PS4 graphic, as good as sony's spiderman 2018 but that was not live action.




I can see that wolverine girl clone in X2 sharp and clear and her fighting looks more hurtful to wolverine. It's not the same with wanda or anything in the movie. This is part of the problem with crossovers, there is no real individuality with the movies style. the characters don't look real in crossovers movies.Crossovers have the worst visual looking style. I would say it was the same thing with Justice League the only full dc crossover movie. dawn of justice looked better and the choreography was better too., although we know JL was DC trying to copy marvel. we are still waiting for the Snyder's cut.

Different focus, and frankly, kind of more chilling, considering that we see Thanos acting like a friend all while having her family murdered.

That is not chilling. him acting as a friend is why she cannot absorb the brutality of evil and violence at a young age as Bruce or Wolverine. Acting to be a friend is more proof the movie's writing is watered down. I saw that in care bears as a kid. Marvel is not meant to be care bears.

Yeah, as a '90s kid, I know that to be bull.
So much for an off-screen death being a "dumb down."

Even that aside, Bambi's mom, anyone?

Disney of the past should not be compared to what disney is now.

[CliffHanger2]

[QUOTE=Beaddle;4554606]

This is a better choreography to anything in endgame because endgame like I said is too animated for a live action movie and blury too. calling singer films dated? what word can we use for all the mcu movies that used the easiest looking CGI to singer who was smart enough to mostly use practical effects because he liked grounded movies? according to objective film making ethics taught in film school, practical effects factually date less. that is why it is more expensive and the movie that uses them don't have much visual scene unless they have the money to spare. X2 is the best example of this theory.

The logic that black panther or infinity war has a better choreography flaws me. One thing I would say with singer, his choreography are not many because he was a story teller who liked drama more. that comic style remains the go to today for making the best and respected comic movies. Calling it dated is laughable when you consider what the Joker is going to be, anyone still talking about Endgame? Endgame can't even rub shoulders with other mature dystopian drama driven time travel movie like DOFP or Minority report thanks to the cinematic crossover film making style that cares more about cgi and ensembles than story or harder visual style

You know you effed up right? LOL. You're showing a wire fight as an example of something not dated lol. This could have been a fight scene from that 2000s Charlies Angles movie. Like seriously that spin in the beginning just disqualifies it and those multi-punches with nothing behind them...NAW. I mean this is definitely an example of something that has aged badly. All those backstabs and screaming is just bad and draws unintentional laughter. The ceremonial fights and casino scene in BP are superior to this and really use practical effects(seemingly none at all). Just characters who appear to be fighting in real time, throwing punches and kicks with real force behind them. With great choreography and camera work.

[Beaddle]

[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;4554637]

You know you effed up right? LOL. You're showing a wire fight as an example of something not dated lol.

Except you don't see the wires from X2. these crossover mcu movies like Endgame and Ultron you see the animated graphics. remeber ultron's lips? I swear PS4 Spiderman lookes better than infinity war spiderman.

This could have been a fight scene from that 2000s Charlies Angles movie. Like seriously that spin in the beginning just disqualifies it and those multi-punches with nothing behind them.

Charlie angels still looks like a live action movie and a good one. MCU movies usually dont like live action, especially the crossovers movies , I find that worse.

Like seriously that spin in the beginning just disqualifies it and those multi-punches with nothing behind them...NAW. I mean this is definitely an example of something that has aged badly. All those backstabs and screaming is just bad and draws unintentional laughter.

To be honest thanos being purple and his animated looking aliens is more laughable. this is the part of the reason the crossover mcu movies are the ones people take less seriously the most. its more about fun. X2 was more brutal, than laughable sorry. I rather not get into mcu quick comebacks that is usually not based on film criticism. Wolverine screams because he is actually hurting.

The ceremonial fights and casino scene in BP are superior to this and really use practical effects(seemingly none at all). Just characters who appear to be fighting in real time,

Neither stood out. X2 wolverine mansion's fight scene is still a classic so is the nightcralwer scene , there was also no social media back then to even spread the word.

Just characters who appear to be fighting in real time, throwing punches and kicks with real force behind them. With great choreography and camera work.

This film?



Black Panther is officially considered one and if not the worst visual mcu movie to date. Like I said, I am the one posting the videos to prove my point. its more than obvious crossover movies lack any unique visual style. infinity war and endgame quality dropped from winter solider because it had to take in the the likes of GOTG , ant man, spiderman and thor, hence why those movies looked like cartoon animation to winter solider that was slightly more grounded and realstic in visuals and choreography.

[CliffHanger2]

[QUOTE=Beaddle;4554677]

Except you don't see the wires from X2. these crossover mcu movies like Endgame and Ultron you see the animated graphics. remeber ultron's lips? I swear PS4 Spiderman lookes better than infifnty war spiderman.



Charlie angels still looks like a live action movie. MCU movies usually dont, especially the crossovers movies , I find that worse.



To be honest thanos being purple and his animated looking aliens is more laughable. this is the part of the reason the crossover mcu movies are the ones people take less seriously. its more about fun. X2 was more brutal, than laughable sorry.



Neither stood out. X2 wolverine mansion's fight scene is still a classic so is the nightcralwer scene , there was also no social media back then to even spread the word.




This?



Black Panther is officially considered one and if not the worst visual mcu movie. X2 is still remembered as one of the best visual comic films and that was in 2003. this is not even if you are a fan of marvel and DC. this is just honest film criticism.

Like I said, I am the one posting the vidoes to prove my point.

its more than obvious crossover movies lack any unique visual style. infinity war and endgame quality dropped from winter solider because it had to take in the the likes of GOTG , ant man, spiderman and thor, hence why those movies looked like cartoons to winter solider that was slightly more grounded in visuals.

Neither stood out???? That's really all your opinion ppl are still talking about those scenes in BP. And that last BP fight still looks better than that Wolverine fight you posted. Nobody has to post video really wire fights are markedly worse than anything from the MCU. Worst visuals?NO- 700 mil domestic disagrees with you. Ppl were mesmerized by the visuals in that movie. That's part of the reason it was so successful than any X-Men movie I might add. X2 is a dwarf in every way compared to BP which is a monster critical and commercial success. I'm starting to think you really didn't see the movie cuz you keep posting one scene. and your bias is clearly showing here. Yeah this movie now post that crappy Wolverine fight again and tell me it's better. Cuz you will definitely reveal yourself as a troll.

[Beaddle]

[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;4554691]

Neither stood out???? That's really all your opinion ppl are still talking about those scenes in BP. And that last BP fight still looks better than that Wolverine fight you posted. Nobody has to post video really wire fights are markedly worse than anything from the MCU. Worst visuals?NO- 700 mil domestic disagrees with you. Ppl were mesmerized by the visuals in that movie. That's part of the reason it was so successful than any X-Men movie I might add. I'm starting to think you really didn't see the movie cuz you keep posting one scene. and your bias is clearly showing here.

if I remember correctly, it was the bad visuals of black panther that became the big talking point of the movie in terms of the general film criticism. I think Feige had to comment on it because there was a backlash.

And that last BP fight still looks better than that Wolverine fight you posted.

This?



Wolverine Origins didn't look this bad and origins was quite bad for a movie in 2009. this is 2018. okay I will just stop now, even this clear bias MCU studio loyalty is not worth talking about. I would just let the objective clear minded folks judge by what they can see from both videos.

Worst visuals?NO- 700 mil domestic disagrees with you. Ppl were mesmerized by the visuals in that movie. That's part of the reason it was so successful than any X-Men movie I might add. I'm starting to think you really didn't see the movie cuz you keep posting one scene. and your bias is clearly showing here.

I care more about quality of a movie. the 700m means nothing in the long haul. look at avatar and star wars. I respect cameron for choosing quality over quantity with avatar.

Wow, people say I am biased when they are actually arguing a movie that came out in 2017 with XBox 1 visual from the 1990s is better than a movie that used the best practical effect of 2003 that holds up better than even the passable cgi effects of 2017 used in black panther, infinity war captain marvel or heck even dark Phoenix. lol

[CliffHanger2]

[QUOTE=Beaddle;4554707]

if I remember correctly, it was the bad viusal of black panther that became the big talking point of the movie in terms of the general film criticism. I think Feige had to commend on it.


This?



Wolverine Origins didn't look this bad and origins was quite bad for a movie in 2009. this is 2018.


okay I will just stop now, even this clear bias MCU studio loyalty is not worth talking about. I would just let the objective clear minded folks judge by what they can see from both video



I care more about quality of a movie. the 700m means nothing in the long haul. look at avatar and star wars.

Wow, people say I am biased when they are actually arguing a movie that came out in 2017 with XBox 1 visual from the 1990s is better than a movie that used the best practical effect of 2003. that holds up better than even the passable cgi effects of 2017 used in black panther, captain marvel or heck even dark Phoenix. lol

Okay I'm done feeding you.

[Beaddle]

[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;4554691]

Neither stood out???? That's really all your opinion ppl are still talking about those scenes in BP. And that last BP fight still looks better than that Wolverine fight you posted. Nobody has to post video really wire fights are markedly worse than anything from the MCU. Worst visuals?NO- 700 mil domestic disagrees with you. Ppl were mesmerized by the visuals in that movie. That's part of the reason it was so successful than any X-Men movie I might add.

That looks okay. again, the movie looks very blurred and the cinematography is weak like most mcu movies, the fighting is okay but it lackS some kind of class or personally style. In X1, when mystique fought, she had the grace of ballet dancer doing it. thaT was her style,

This stands out better in visuals,Magneto may not be a ballet dance but he has a certain grace to him.

X2 is a dwarf in every way compared to BP which is a monster critical and commercial success. I'm starting to think you really didn't see the movie cuz you keep posting one scene. and your bias is clearly showing here. Yeah this movie now post that crappy Wolverine fight again and tell me it's better. Cuz you will definitely reveal yourself as a troll.

No it is not because there is nothing in BP that is there to dwarf, the story is formulaic, the movie follows the disney formula, the visual are terrible. X2 is far more acclaimed as a movie of actual film quality because it was not just another generic mcu movie in a crossover universe that was fun. this is the main ''accliam for crossover cinematic movies'' that has lost so much meaning.

if black panther was a fox or sony movie not part of any crossover universe. the reviews wont be pretty at all. it may have grossed less than Blade 1 and Blade 2 or Hancock if just sold him as a superhero without mentioning his race.

[CliffHanger2]

[QUOTE=Beaddle;4554741]

That looks okay. again, the movie looks very blurred and the cinematography is weak like most mcu movies, the fighting is okay but it lackS some kind of class or personally style. In X1, when mystique fought, she had the grace of balled dancer doing it. thaT was her style,

This stands out better in visuals,Magneto may not be a balled dance but he has a certain grace to him.





No it is not because there is nothing in BP that is there to dwarf, the story is formulaic, the movie follows the disney formula, the visual are terrible. X2 is far more acclaimed as a movie of actual film quality because it was not just another generic mcu movie in a crossover universe that was fun. this is the main ''accliam for crossover cinematic movies'' that has lost so much meaning.

if black panther was a fox or sony movie not part of any crossover universe. the reviews wont be pretty at all. it may have grossed less than Blade 1 and Blade 2 or Hancock if just sold him as a superhero without mentioning his race.

Typical racist argument. "Black Panther was only successful cuz it's black" Duh...X2 was more critically acclaimed. Okay now I know you're not going with facts just personal fantasy. And that fight looks blurred to you wtf are you watching this stuff on? Mystique looked like a ballet dancer? No she looked like an awkward chick on wires get over it dude.

[Star_Jammer]

Its cute when all the quotations get mixed up.

[Midvillian1322]

[QUOTE=Beaddle;4554741]

That looks okay. again, the movie looks very blurred and the cinematography is weak like most mcu movies, the fighting is okay but it lackS some kind of class or personally style. In X1, when mystique fought, she had the grace of balled dancer doing it. thaT was her style,

This stands out better in visuals,Magneto may not be a balled dance but he has a certain grace to him.





No it is not because there is nothing in BP that is there to dwarf, the story is formulaic, the movie follows the disney formula, the visual are terrible. X2 is far more acclaimed as a movie of actual film quality because it was not just another generic mcu movie in a crossover universe that was fun. this is the main ''accliam for crossover cinematic movies'' that has lost so much meaning.

if black panther was a fox or sony movie not part of any crossover universe. the reviews wont be pretty at all. it may have grossed less than Blade 1 and Blade 2 or Hancock if just sold him as a superhero without mentioning his race.

X2 is far more acclaimed? By who? Black Panther was nominated for a fist full of Oscar's, won some. And got constant praise for how beautiful the movies looked(Set Desgin,Costume) same goes for the Soundtrack. Black Panther ascended CBMs and became a cultural phenomenon. X2 was just a well liked movie.

[Beaddle]

I have been called a racist twice today. first of giving my logical opinions about captain marvel and now this? Sigh don't I miss the days when it was okay to criticize movies like Electra and blade 3 and not be called racist or sexist straight away. This is just another disney spin tactics. It already bombed with last jedi.

X2 is far more acclaimed? By who? Black Panther was nominated for a fist full of Oscar's, won some. And got constant praise for how beautiful the movies looked(Set Desgin,Costume) same goes for the Soundtrack. Black Panther ascended CBMs and became a cultural phenomenon. X2 was just a well liked movie.

We have done this before 8 pages back about awards. it has no meaning. it can't be measured on merit in black panther case. I am more comfortable talking about all the awards logan, deadpool and tdk were nominated for because I don't have to deal with politics. Wonder how many oscars X2 would have gotten if fox had pushed hard or was as powerful as disney had the balls to make the movie.

X2 is a more acclaimed movie. it was just not another fun and entertaining comic movie, X2 was acclaimed as one of the most intellectual drama driven comic movies of all time. back then, it was even controversial because it did not feel like comic movie. that accliam should not be compared to the likes of the fun and jokes generic MCU accliam you see with FFH, Avengers , GOTG, Thor 3, or ant man. Those are lower tier comic films acclaims.

There is a reason winter solider is still looked at also as the most acclaimed mcu movie. sorry, this is where you truly see RT is more than meaningless and its about the substance or even maturity of the movie. X2 has more than any disney crossover films can chew. it is well acclaimed for that. this is the accliam that would get Oscars.

Black Panther ascended CBMs and became a cultural phenomenon. X2 was just a well liked movie.

As X2 has more mojo on its side to make the claim it is a better quality movie and more oscar deserving, it would be liked more in the non disney media land. that is the standard films have always been judge. the crossover movies have been trying to change the standard and they have been failing at it. See Spiderman 2 vs Homecoming. X1/X2 transcended comic book movies more than black panther because those films gave the comic movies credibility as movies that can be serious realstic stories. Sorry. so did Blade as a the actual first black mainstream hero and Spiderman 2 that showed it did not need to be as grounded or as 95% drama toned serious as the xmen movies and still make more money.