The Problems with the Crossover Universe Phenomenon

[CliffHanger2]

I have been called a racist twice today. first of giving my logical opinions about captain marvel and now this? Sigh don't I miss the days when it was okay to criticize movies like Electra and blade 3 and not be called racist or sexist straight away. This is just another disney spin tactics. It already bombed with last jedi.



We have done this before 8 pages back about awards. it has no meaning. it can't be measured on merit in black panther case. I am more comfortable talking about all the awards logan, deadpool and tdk were nominated for because I don't have to deal with politics. Wonder how many oscars X2 would have gotten if fox had pushed hard or was as powerful as disney had the balls to make the movie.

X2 is a more acclaimed movie. it was just not another fun and entertaining comic movie, X2 was acclaimed as one of the most intellectual drama driven comic movies of all time. back then, it was even controversial because it did not feel like comic movie. that accliam should not be compared to the likes of the fun and jokes generic MCU accliam you see with FFH, Avengers , GOTG, Thor 3, or ant man. Those are lower tier comic films acclaims.

There is a reason winter solider is still looked at also as the most acclaimed mcu movie. sorry, this is where you truly see RT is more than meaningless and its about the substance or even maturity of the movie. X2 has more than any disney crossover films can chew. it is well acclaimed for that. this is the accliam that would get Oscars.


As X2 has more mojo on its side to make the claim it is a better quality movie and more oscar deserving, it would be liked more in the non disney media land. that is the standard films have always been judge. the crossover movies have been trying to change the standard and they have been failing at it. See Spiderman 2 vs Homecoming. X1/X2 transcended comic book movies more than black panther because those films gave the comic movies credibility as movies that can be serious realstic stories. Sorry. so did Blade as a the actual first black mainstream hero and Spiderman 2 that showed it did not need to be as grounded or as 95% drama toned serious as the xmen movies and still make more money.

Maybe if you weren't showing outright bias towards women and poc you wouldn't be called those things. And then going into fantasy mode saying X2 is more critically acclaimed and goes more in depth on poc issues than BP. doesn't help you to look any better. Seriously you're talking smack about a movie you most likely didn't even see. You already said "I don't pay much attention to female characters" Those are your words and by your posts it's clear that attitude extends to other ppl as well. But yet you're sitting up here acting like you're a serious film critic and respecter of merit and film quality.... whatever dude...

Your whole MCU is generic argument is smoke. Ppl can see the real reason you don't like the MCU it's based on your own personal biases.

[Jokerz79]

Black Panther has more awards nominations and wins than X2.

Black Panther made more money than X2 even when Adjusted for Inflation.

Black Panther has a higher critic rating than X2 there is no measurement where X2 beats Black Panther when it comes to being acclaimed.

[Killerbee911]

Black Panther has more awards nominations and wins than X2.

Black Panther made more money than X2 even when Adjusted for Inflation.

Black Panther has a higher critic rating than X2 there is no measurement where X2 beats Black Panther when it comes to being acclaimed.

You are wasting your time you know your going to get the media is bias for Disney argument.

[Beaddle]

Black Panther has more awards nominations and wins than X2.

because of hollywood politics and diversity ad the disney back up. this is when awards no longer matter because it is not based on merit. wonder how many awards X2 would have gotten if the entire cast was black and had disney as the studio.

Black Panther made more money than X2 even when Adjusted for Inflation.

So? Did matter it to you when avatar was no 1

Black Panther has a higher critic rating than X2 there is no measurement where X2 beats Black Panther when it comes to being acclaimed.

Last Jedi is the highest rated star wars movie right? RT scores numbers, they don't show accliam.
Means nothing in terms of real accliam. sorry the real question is what would X2 rt score be if MCU made the movie?
if black panther was actually better, mcu fans would have been able to prove it by talking about the movie screenplay and visual style like I did.higher rt score is what gotg 2 one of the most mediocre brainless comic movies shares or is even higher than Batman begins and Deadpool, two movies that are very important to their series. Please who takes that seriously? And you wonder why people say their is a bias.

[Beaddle]

Maybe if you weren't showing outright bias towards women and poc you wouldn't be called those things. .

When did I show bias to women? Wonder woman was pretty good as a female superhero movie.

Wesley Snipes killed it as Blade in the first 2 films.

Terrance Howard was almost outshining RDJ in Iron Man 1

Morgan Freeman was one of the best things of the TDK trilogy.

Want me to go on?

And then going into fantasy mode saying X2 is more critically acclaimed and goes more in depth on poc issues than BP. doesn't help you to look any better.

what makes black panther more acclaimed? the story is not as praised as anything compelling and the visual are bad. Saying black panther is more acclaimed is like saying ant man 2 is more acclaimed than batman begins. that does work at all. ant man 2 content is too weak. most mcu acclaimed is laughable to the non crossover movies.

what is accliam? accliam because you are fun and dumb like mcu movies or acclaimed because you are serious , grounded and smart enough for a comic movie that people see as usually dumb? what is the better accliam to have?

you're talking smack about a movie you most likely didn't even see. You already said "I don't pay much attention to female characters" Those are your words and by your posts it's clear that attitude extends to other ppl as well. But yet you're sitting up here acting like you're a serious film critic and respecter of merit and film quality.... whatever dude...

I don't pay much attention to female characters because they are hardly treated well and it can get boring when they are put into the rescue the girl trope or the love interest.

Your whole MCU is generic argument is smoke. Ppl can see the real reason you don't like the MCU it's based on your own personal biases.

Do you know many directors who had made non marvel movies have share my opinions? even some mcu directors?

Black panther was a generic formulaic movie, if it was an xmen or siderman marvel movie by fox/sony made without the diversity angle, the rt score will be in the low 40s-60s. a movie that paint by numbers script, with one dimensional characters and weak CGI belongs in the same length as amazing spiderman 1. The most acclaimed marvel MCU movie is the winter solider. sorry.

[Jokerz79]

because of hollywood politics and diversity ad the disney back up. this is when awards no longer matter because it is not based on merit. wonder how many awards X2 would have gotten if the entire cast was black and had disney as the studio.



So? Did matter it to you when avatar was no 1




Last Jedi is the highest rated star wars movie right? RT scores numbers, they don't show accliam.
Means nothing in terms of real accliam. sorry the real question is what would X2 rt score be if MCU made the movie?
if black panther was actually better, mcu fans would have been able to prove it by talking about the movie screenplay and visual style like I did.higher rt score is what gotg 2 one of the most mediocre brainless comic movies shares or is even higher than Batman begins and Deadpool, two movies that are very important to their series. Please who takes that seriously? And you wonder why people say their is a bias.

You keep saying acclaimed but on every way you can measure acclaim BP wins. So it's not acclaim it's your opinion which you think is acclaim

[CliffHanger2]

When did I show bias to women? Wonder woman was pretty good as a female superhero movie.

Wesley Snipes killed it as Blade in the first 2 films.

Terrance Howard was almost outshining RDJ in Iron Man 1

Morgan Freeman was one of the best things of the TDK trilogy.

Want me to go on?



what makes black panther more acclaimed? the story is not as praised as anything compelling and the visual are bad. Saying black panther is more acclaimed is like saying ant man 2 is more acclaimed than batman begins. that does work at all. ant man 2 content is too weak. most mcu acclaimed is laughable to the non crossover movies.

what is accliam? accliam because you are fun and dumb like mcu movies or acclaimed because you are serious , grounded and smart enough for a comic movie that people see as usually dumb? what is the better accliam to have?


I don't pay much attention to female characters because they are hardly treated well and it can get boring when they are put into the rescue the girl trope or the love interest.

Do you know many directors who had made non marvel movies have share my opinions? even some mcu directors?

Black panther was a generic formulaic movie, if it was an xmen or siderman marvel movie by fox/sony made without the diversity angle, the rt score will be in the low 40s-60s. a movie that paint by numberd, with one dimesnioanl characters and weak CGI belongs in the same length as amazing spiderman 1. The most acclaimed marvel MCU movie is the winter solider. sorry.

This little world you live in is interesting...Making things up and trying to change the definitions of words to fit your worldview is what's sorry..

[XPac]

When did I show bias to women? Wonder woman was pretty good as a female superhero movie.

Wesley Snipes killed it as Blade in the first 2 films.

Terrance Howard was almost outshining RDJ in Iron Man 1

Morgan Freeman was one of the best things of the TDK trilogy.

Want me to go on?



what makes black panther more acclaimed? the story is not as praised as anything compelling and the visual are bad. Saying black panther is more acclaimed is like saying ant man 2 is more acclaimed than batman begins. that does work at all. ant man 2 content is too weak. most mcu acclaimed is laughable to the non crossover movies.

what is accliam? accliam because you are fun and dumb like mcu movies or acclaimed because you are serious , grounded and smart enough for a comic movie that people see as usually dumb? what is the better accliam to have?


I don't pay much attention to female characters because they are hardly treated well and it can get boring when they are put into the rescue the girl trope or the love interest.

Do you know many directors who had made non marvel movies have share my opinions? even some mcu directors?

Black panther was a generic formulaic movie, if it was an xmen or siderman marvel movie by fox/sony made without the diversity angle, the rt score will be in the low 40s-60s. a movie that paint by numberd, with one dimesnioanl characters and weak CGI belongs in the same length as amazing spiderman 1. The most acclaimed marvel MCU movie is the winter solider. sorry.

I'm dam sure Sony, Fox, and the WB would LOVE to get the acclaim Black Panther is getting. You're getting news stories of principals having school children go to see this movie ... it wasn't just a movie, but a social event a the time. You're getting Oscar nominations for best picture. You're getting over a billion dollars at the box office.

However you want to describe the acclaim Black Panther is gettng, I'm dam sure Fox, Sony, and the WB would love to be getting it over pretty much the level of acclaim they've gotten for any of their recent movies.

[Colossus1980]

Decades from now people will be talking about Black Panther, not X1 or X2.

[Beaddle]

I'm dam sure Sony, Fox, and the WB would LOVE to get the acclaim Black Panther is getting. You're getting news stories of principals having school children go to see this movie ... it wasn't just a movie, but a social event a the time. You're getting Oscar nominations for best picture. You're getting over a billion dollars at the box office.

However you want to describe the acclaim Black Panther is gettng, I'm dam sure Fox, Sony, and the WB would love to be getting it over pretty much the level of acclaim they've gotten for any of their recent movies.

I don't think so. Fox were fine with Logan, a movie they barely pushed for anything like their other movies that would have stood a chance than the generic mcu comedies. In fact I remember some marvel fans who were mad at Fox for not pushing logan for any awards when they saw WB was pushing hard wonder woman.

Sony are cool with Spiderverse.

WB were fine with TDK and even them had to live with the idea Ledger's death may have helped the movie. which is why I hope the Joker does well in 2019. a movie not using the crossover approach.

No one will really want the accliam of black panther because it was not based in merit, its kind of awkward even.

[Beaddle]

Decades from now people will be talking about Black Panther, not X1 or X2.

This film? Is this even a marvel movie anymore or even a comic book movie? This is a MOVIE.




People will talk about black panther for diversity , X1 and X2 changed the entire story telling of comic films for the better. black panther does not have that impact. that is not much to talk about. Black Panther already has a lot of genuine non racist deslikers because it was an overhyped overrated movie backed by the disney kingdom. people tend to only remember actual quality movies fondly that did not need to be overhyped.

[Midvillian1322]

When did I show bias to women? Wonder woman was pretty good as a female superhero movie.

Wesley Snipes killed it as Blade in the first 2 films.

Terrance Howard was almost outshining RDJ in Iron Man 1

Morgan Freeman was one of the best things of the TDK trilogy.

Want me to go on? .

Edited because it's not worth it.

[XPac]

I don't think so. Fox were fine with Logan, a movie they barely pushed for anything like their other movies that would have stood a chance than the generic mcu comedies. In fact I remember some marvel fans who were mad at Fox for not pushing logan for any awards when they saw WB was pushing hard wonder woman.

Sony are cool with Spiderverse.

WB were fine with TDK and even them had to live with the idea Ledger's death may have helped the movie. which is why I hope the Joker does well in 2019. a movie not using the crossover approach.

No one will really want the accliam of black panther because it was not based in merit, its kind of awkward even.

Oh, I'm certain Fox was FINE with Logan. Doesn't mean they wouldn't want a billion dollars out of it. Doesn't mean they wouldn't want media covering how elementary school principals were taking their kids on a school day to see the movie. Doesn't mean they wouldn't want a nomination for best picture at the Oscars. Logan got a very very very good reception. But BP's was much much better.

If you genuinely believe that no one would want the acclaim of the Black Panther movie, then you don't know what you're talking about.

[Beaddle]

Oh, I'm certain Fox was FINE with Logan. Doesn't mean they wouldn't want a billion dollars out of it. Doesn't mean they wouldn't want media covering how elementary school principals were taking their kids on a school day to see the movie.

Oh billion dollar movies? I guess that is a perk but I think studios tend to be fine once they make their budget back in a very good way to make more movies.

Doesn't mean they wouldn't want a nomination for best picture at the Oscars.

Most won't if there is an elephant in the room they were nominated for the wrong reasons.

. Logan got a very very very good reception. But BP's was much much better.

Is that the reason almost every movie fan felt Logan was deserving of best picture but the oscars hate comic films so much they gave it a consultation adapted screenplay nomination. also denying patrick stewart, hugh jackman and dafeen keen. also is that why most people think black panther was undeserving except only MCU fans.

logan is an xmen movie, that is though already. if black panther was an xmen movie, Logan, X2, DOFP, First class, X-men and Deadpool would be better Oscar options than black panther if fox were to submit a film.

If you genuinely believe that no one would want the acclaim of the Black Panther movie, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Its an accliam that had more to do with diversity. that is not what the oscars are for. the other accliam is like the rest of the mcu. fun popcorn flicks . these acclaims are not really that good when you compare it to the accliam xmen, batman or spiderman movies have had in the past, movies above the disney child friendly driven lighthearted MCU crossover movies.

[XPac]

Oh billion dollar movies? I guess that is a perk but I think studios tend to be fine once they make their budget back in a very good way to make more movies.



Most won't if there is an elephant in the room they were nominated for the wrong reasons.


Is that the reason almost every movie fan felt Logan was deserving of best picture but the oscars hate comic films so much they gave it a consultation adapted screenplay nomination. also denying patrick stewart, hugh jackman and dafeen keen. also is that why most people think black panther was undeserving except only MCU fans.

logan is an xmen movie, that is though already. if black panther was an xmen movie, Logan, X2, DOFP, First class, X-men and Deadpool would be better Oscar options than black panther if fox were to submit a film.


Its an accliam that had more to do with diversity. that is not what the oscars are for. the other accliam is like the rest of the mcu. fun popcorn flicks . these acclaims are not really that good when you compare it to the accliam xmen, batman or spiderman movies have had in the past, movies above the disney child friendly driven lighthearted MCU crossover movies.

Sure movies tend to be FINE when they make their budget... but studios don't make big budget movies just to make budget. They make them with the intent of making a profit. This is a business. Making 600 million is very good... making twice that is TWICE as good. Basica common sense a 5 year old should be able to understand.

And if you don't think Fox, WB, or Sony would want an Oscar nomination for best film, you're very very wrong.

As far as acclaim for BP not being as good as Logan ... says who? You and some people on social media? Again, BP got a freaking Oscar nomination... that's as much acclaim as any of these movies are going to get. Who says it has more to do with diversity? You and some people on social media? I gurantee you that Fox, Sony, and the WB care more for the acclaim of the academy than they do yours, mine or the opinons of a bunch of other people on social media. That's the simple reality of the situation. What you or I argue about on a posting board or twitter means far less than the tanglble things a movie like BP actually mananged to achieve in real life. You can agree or disagree, but that's how it works.