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  1. #16
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Oh, absolutely. I thought about that when I posted the statement. There was also the television shows "The Beverly Hillbillies", "Green Acres" and "Petticoat Junction" that existed in the same whacky world. Heck, even "Cannon" and "Barnaby Jones" had a crossover. I'm just talking about the sheer scale of the MCU "crossover".
    Yes, the MCU while not the first has definitely been the biggest in sheer scope and ambition. Just felt that it needed to be pointed out what they've done while innovative and impressive wasn't completely new. They deserve credit certainly, but the shared universe thing had been done before.

  2. #17
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Most comments here are vague and does not directly expand on the topic. what I am saying is? how many comic book properties out there does the appeal of a crossover appeal too.

    Batman does not need it, spiderman does not need it, xmen does not need it. in fact I would say some of their best movies benefited from the fact that there are not in a crossover universe.

    Spiderman has not just lost his uniqueness but he feels very shuffled in the MCU too.

    I can't even think of the idea of mutants been a failed experiment from tony stark's lab, just so marvel can keep the crossover narrative. its too horrible to fathom.

    The idea of Storm's first appearance in the MCU as nothing more but a love interest for black panther would be far worse than halle berry trying to do an African accent.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-25-2019 at 08:51 PM.

  3. #18
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Most comments here are vague and does not directly expand on the topic. what I am saying is? how many comic book properties out there does the appeal of a crossover appeal too.

    Batman does not need it, spiderman does not need it, xmen does not need it. in fact I would say some of their best movies benefited from the fact that there are not in a crossover universe.

    Spiderman has not just lost his uniqueness but he feels very shuffled in the MCU too.

    I can't even think of the idea of mutants been a failed experiment from tony stark's lab, just so marvel can keep the crossover narrative. its too horrible to fathom.

    The idea of Storm's first appearance in the MCU as nothing more but a love interest for black panther would be far worse than halle berry trying to do an African accent.
    Black Panther was nominated for an Oscar and had well developed bad ass female characters. Storm Being introduced in the hands of Ryan Coogler would be blessing(I dont know that sure but Coogler has a spotless track record and is a Oscar Darling.)

  4. #19
    Mighty Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    Marvel not having access to some of their better known heroes turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

    I like Spider-Man and the X-Men but if Marvel had the rights then we probably would not of got films for Ant-Man, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Guardians Of The Galaxy, Doctor Strange, ect within 10 years.

    I know I'm an outlier but I'm actually interested in seeing some new stuff and heroes I'm less familiar with.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Literally, DC and Marvel initial popularity is based on superheroes crossing over and continuity. Spiderman, X-Men, Daredevil and Fantastic 4 all live in New York and meet up. It is meta-joke with fans that villains should commit crimes in other cities. The movies are just doing with the comics have been doing. It is sad that you have to explain to "comic fans" the appeal is the heroes live in the same world.

    The only brutal truth about the Marvel Cinematic Universe is Marvel signed crap contracts because the idea of them being their own studio( and not bankrupt) never their cross minds yeah it was a blessing at first they would never focus on B-list characters with the A-list guys around like Spiderman, Wolverine, and X-men. But after initial process Marvel was screwed because chunks of important IP was trapped with these companies, for example, FF could suck forever on the big screen but Dr. Doom, Skrulls, Kree, Kang, Annihilus, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Attuma, Super Skrull, Ego and lesser degree Namor and Inhumans are tied to franchise and Marvel didn't have access. Spiderman has Kraven, Norman Osborn, The Symbiotes and Kingpin are tied to the franchise, The X-men not being around preventing them from access mutants which is the source of chunk of superhumans get powers in the world. Marvel is super interconnected just think about how important Norman Osborn is some big stories that marvel might tell soon.

    On the positive side Marvel is going to fulfill it is all connected mantra with agents of shield ending and no netflix shows. All the new tv shows are directly connected into MCU and finally Marvel is hitting on cylinders.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-26-2019 at 03:02 AM.

  6. #21
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Literally, DC and Marvel initial popularity is based on superheroes crossing over and continuity. Spiderman, X-Men, Daredevil and Fantastic 4 all live in New York and meet up. It is meta-joke with fans that villains should commit crimes in other cities. The movies are just doing with the comics have been doing. It is sad that you have to explain to "comic fans" the appeal is the heroes live in the same world.

    The only brutal truth about the Marvel Cinematic Universe is Marvel signed crap contracts because the idea of them being their own studio( and not bankrupt) never their cross minds yeah it was a blessing at first they would never focus on B-list characters with the A-list guys around like Spiderman, Wolverine, and X-men. But after initial process Marvel was screwed because chunks of important IP was trapped with these companies, for example, FF could suck forever on the big screen but Dr. Doom, Skrulls, Kree, Kang, Annihilus, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Attuma, Super Skrull, Ego and lesser degree Namor and Inhumans are tied to franchise and Marvel didn't have access. Spiderman has Kraven, Norman Osborn, The Symbiotes and Kingpin are tied to the franchise, The X-men not being around preventing them from access mutants which is the source of chunk of superhumans get powers in the world. Marvel is super interconnected just think about how important Norman Osborn is some big stories that marvel might tell soon.

    On the positive side Marvel is going to fulfill it is all connected mantra with agents of shield ending and no netflix shows. All the new tv shows are directly connected into MCU and finally Marvel is hitting on cylinders.
    I dont know if runaways and Cloak and Dagger will ever connect to the mcu. Or the new Ghost rider show. Marvel Televsion will still be doin stiff while Marvel Studios does all THE Disney + content with the big budgets.

    Skrulls much like The twins were shared by both companies. I think when Fox had Daredevil KingPin was in the same boat. Both companies could use him. Now I dont know if that went for Sony aswell and Fisk was available across all 3 companies or if Sony were only allowed to use him in Spiderverse because Disney let them. Kinda weird Fisks right wouldnt be tied to Spiderman though. But maybe Sony didnt ask for him in they're deal but Fox did. We know fox specifically requested Deadpool be apart of they're deal. Anyway none that matters and those deals kept Marvel afloat and that led us to the MCU. So I'm fine with those shitty deals.

  7. #22
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Black Panther was nominated for an Oscar and had well developed bad ass female characters. )
    I thought the oscars were trolling us with black panther? has any comic film been nominated for major Oscars? Wasn't Logan nominated for best picture or something? strange that black panther was nominated for oscars with such a cliche superhero film and some disappointing technical aspects. Deadpool had more artistic film making reasons to be nominated than black panther. And to think we need more proof of bias than the demonetization of sony as the villains in the Spiderman failed deal.

    Storm Being introduced in the hands of Ryan Coogler would be blessing(I dont know that sure but Coogler has a spotless track record and is a Oscar Darling.
    I thought the characters were all pretty one dimensional like the rest of the movie. They start of the movie the same and stay the same, no one develops in that movie apart from black panther but only at the end. the movie is very clichely plot driven than character driven as most mcu movies are. Can you really compare their development to selina kyle from batman returns or Mystique in the earlier prequels, who are completely different people by the end of the films and I don't really pay much attention to female characters because they are usually love interests or some kind of sidekick.

    You are getting storm so wrong. the same way some mcu fans still don't understand why Ironboy in the MCU spiderman films is wrong. Storm is more than a love interest of black panther, its a far worse take than what fox ever did with her. she does not need to be introduced in a black panther movie or be defined by her boring realtionship with him. she needs to be established as the co-leader of the xmen first with 3 movies in. This is why mcu crossover makes characters like spiderman, thor or xmen loose their uniqueness.

    You said I was speaking for x-fans when I was not but lets be realistic and go for the obvious. what is more important in the x-men kingdom? storm as the leader of xmen or storm as black panther's wife?

    Pinsir was right, I finally realize just how big of a problem MCU has on their hand when people are now using un-credible awards that Disney has been hijacking for years, It is not merit earned.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-26-2019 at 05:15 AM.

  8. #23
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Most comments here are vague and does not directly expand on the topic. what I am saying is? how many comic book properties out there does the appeal of a crossover appeal too.

    Batman does not need it, spiderman does not need it, xmen does not need it. in fact I would say some of their best movies benefited from the fact that there are not in a crossover universe.

    Spiderman has not just lost his uniqueness but he feels very shuffled in the MCU too.

    I can't even think of the idea of mutants been a failed experiment from tony stark's lab, just so marvel can keep the crossover narrative. its too horrible to fathom.

    The idea of Storm's first appearance in the MCU as nothing more but a love interest for black panther would be far worse than halle berry trying to do an African accent.
    Any comic book character can benefit, as long as the stiry makes senses. Movies obviously need multiple characters in them, super hero or otherwise. Arguing that it can't be another super hero is just as potentially flawed as arguing it has to be.

    That said, there is an economy in a movie linking to what is already established. Movies have 2 hours to tell a story, and bogging things down with talking heads explaining something entirely new can slow down momentum. If things can be linked to established characters or concepts that the audience is already familiar with, it can save 10 minutes of exposition.

    Plus its a way to introduce characters without having to give them their own movie. You're generating potentially new IP with a lot less time and effort.

  9. #24
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Literally, DC and Marvel initial popularity is based on superheroes crossing over and continuity. Spiderman, X-Men, Daredevil and Fantastic 4 all live in New York and meet up. It is meta-joke with fans that villains should commit crimes in other cities. The movies are just doing with the comics have been doing. It is sad that you have to explain to "comic fans" the appeal is the heroes live in the same world.

    The only brutal truth about the Marvel Cinematic Universe is Marvel signed crap contracts because the idea of them being their own studio( and not bankrupt) never their cross minds yeah it was a blessing at first they would never focus on B-list characters with the A-list guys around like Spiderman, Wolverine, and X-men. But after initial process Marvel was screwed because chunks of important IP was trapped with these companies, for example, FF could suck forever on the big screen but Dr. Doom, Skrulls, Kree, Kang, Annihilus, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Attuma, Super Skrull, Ego and lesser degree Namor and Inhumans are tied to franchise and Marvel didn't have access. Spiderman has Kraven, Norman Osborn, The Symbiotes and Kingpin are tied to the franchise, The X-men not being around preventing them from access mutants which is the source of chunk of superhumans get powers in the world. Marvel is super interconnected just think about how important Norman Osborn is some big stories that marvel might tell soon.

    On the positive side Marvel is going to fulfill it is all connected mantra with agents of shield ending and no netflix shows. All the new tv shows are directly connected into MCU and finally Marvel is hitting on cylinders.
    Here is a far brutal truth that relates to the topic.

    X-men: Logan ,DOFP, X2, Deadpool, X-Men 1

    Batman: Batman 89, Batman Returns, The Dark Knight, Batman Begins, Under the Redhood.

    Superman: Superman 78, Superman Man 2, The death of superman

    Spiderman: Spiderman 1, Spiderman 2, Spiderman 3, Into the Spiderverse.

    None of these movies took place in any crossover universe. All films benefited as been the best of themselves than MCU has ever done , firstly for not been disney kid friendly juvenile movies, secondly, these films had more creative control which lead to a more appreciative film making quality to the formula structure that has been set in place for the MCU to maintain their crossovers.

    As I said, the comments here are vague, I was waiting to here any reasonable justification of how anything good can come out of mutants becoming failed tony's stark experiment or magneto having no warfare past in the mcu because it removes or takes away from their crossover narrative. I guess the only defense on such a terrible take on the xmen would be high rotten tomatoes scores and box office. Yes, because high rotten tomatoes scores makes the sound of the movie look even as well-done as what X-Men 2 did with the mutant concept that was straight from the backbones of the comics that was not so crazy about crossovers. Not.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-26-2019 at 06:15 AM.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Writing down a list of movies and saying they’re better than MCU movies doesn’t actually make them better. It just makes you a person with an opinion. I’m waiting to hear any reasonable justification of how your opinions are special.

  11. #26
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    Writing down a list of movies and saying they’re better than MCU movies doesn’t actually make them better. It just makes you a person with an opinion. I’m waiting to hear any reasonable justification of how your opinions are special.
    It's not about ''better'' in the sense of the overrated marvel vs dc fan debate. its about doing what was the most best and being more appreciative of film making qualities not just in the art itself but for the comic book genre that is usually looked down on. The fact that none of those moves I mentioned would merged well in the MCU says a lot about how much MCU is lacking beneath the surface.

    Please tell me again how storm been defined as black panther's love interest is anyworse than Spiderman Ironboy?
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-26-2019 at 06:40 AM.

  12. #27
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Heck, even "Cannon" and "Barnaby Jones" had a crossover. I'm just talking about the sheer scale of the MCU "crossover".
    Haha, that's a deep pull, McCloud didn't want any parts of that?

    Right on, I'll definitely be looking for that on the Youtubes.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Most comments here are vague and does not directly expand on the topic. what I am saying is? how many comic book properties out there does the appeal of a crossover appeal too.

    Batman does not need it, spiderman does not need it, xmen does not need it. in fact I would say some of their best movies benefited from the fact that there are not in a crossover universe.

    Spiderman has not just lost his uniqueness but he feels very shuffled in the MCU too.

    I can't even think of the idea of mutants been a failed experiment from tony stark's lab, just so marvel can keep the crossover narrative. its too horrible to fathom.

    The idea of Storm's first appearance in the MCU as nothing more but a love interest for black panther would be far worse than halle berry trying to do an African accent.
    They might not have needed it then but they definitely need it now if they're going to compete with the MCU's success. And are you speculating on these intros or are they really a thing. Cuz just making stuff up isn't a good way to debate.

    Superheroes have always existed in shared universes but you're acting like every Marvel movie is a cross-over event. That's not really the case.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I can't even think of the idea of mutants been a failed experiment from tony stark's lab, just so marvel can keep the crossover narrative. its too horrible to fathom.
    This actually isn't an MCU problem more than it is a filmmaking problem since there is an unwritten rule in cinema where characters somehow need a focal point to branch out from, a trope which had since bled into comics and cartoons. The concept of a cinematic universe only caused these to be brought to further light. You see examples of these best in the Fantastic Four films than any other movie where they try as best as they can to give Doom superpowers by having him affected by the cosmic ray bombardment rather than make him a genius sorcerer who runs on Final Fantasy style magitek. Somehow, the audience finds it more "believable" if the villain and hero are connected along with other side characters. Not to mention, you have the limits in film that aren't expressed in the books, mainly the limited run time. You can burn several hundred million for two hours of film, but you can spend decades writing a myth arc with nineteen separate narratives in a book and not even dent that.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I thought the oscars were trolling us with black panther? has any comic film been nominated for major Oscars? Wasn't Logan nominated for best picture or something? strange that black panther was nominated for oscars with such a cliche superhero film and some disappointing technical aspects. Deadpool had more artistic film making reasons to be nominated than black panther. And to think we need more proof of bias than the demonetization of sony as the villains in the Spiderman failed deal.


    I thought the characters were all pretty one dimensional like the rest of the movie. They start of the movie the same and stay the same, no one develops in that movie apart from black panther but only at the end. the movie is very clichely plot driven than character driven as most mcu movies are. Can you really compare their development to selina kyle from batman returns or Mystique in the earlier prequels, who are completely different people by the end of the films and I don't really pay much attention to female characters because they are usually love interests or some kind of sidekick.
    BP was definitely NOT a cliché superhero film. No Logan was not nominated for best picture LOOOOL. Deadpool more artistic than Black Panther-REALLY?????? You say the characters stayed the same through the movie how would you know since you don't really pay attention to female characters? You apparently missed a lot if you even saw it. I'm starting to feel like we're being trolled here.....

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