Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 34
  1. #16
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    2,283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Here's a thought about Kandor, that actually has to do with the Leviathan story: we just saw Amanda Waller of all people have tech that can fool sensors and wasn't (somehow) noticed by Kryptonian eyes.

    What if a handful Kandorians did the same? And while they can't be enlarged again with it hurting them, they use stolen tech from Brainiac to reconstruct the bottle and start over.

    I'm just saying that, in comics, there are more ways than I can count to bring back Kandor in some way that doesn't involve a reboot.
    Well, one story had the bottle get shattered, but the reason Superman hadn't just cut the bottle open was that version had a fancy spatial compression thing and when the bottle was broken it actually shifted into the Phantom Zone or something.

  2. #17
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Here's a thought about Kandor, that actually has to do with the Leviathan story: we just saw Amanda Waller of all people have tech that can fool sensors and wasn't (somehow) noticed by Kryptonian eyes.

    What if a handful Kandorians did the same? And while they can't be enlarged again with it hurting them, they use stolen tech from Brainiac to reconstruct the bottle and start over.


    I'm just saying that, in comics, there are more ways than I can count to bring back Kandor in some way that doesn't involve a reboot.
    Could they survive outside the bottle? That'd be kinda crazy. The Fortress will apparently go missing soon. Everyone assumes Lois steals it in the YOTV stuff, maybe some still shrunken Kandorians hung around and take off with it!

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,011

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    So this is gonna sound meaner than I'm actually intending it to.

    Over the past couple of days hearing about some fans taking issue with Superman not being with the Legion first and now, apparently, Kandor getting broken, I can't help but make a comparison:

    Little Jimmy really likes the idea of his Legion toy and his the idea of his Kandor toy, but he's long since stopped playing with them or even mentioning them. They're just toys that he has so he can say he has them. And when you try and take them away or just move it right down the hall (still well within Jimmy's reach) Jimmy gets mad and all of a sudden they're the most important things to him. And Jimmy brings up rich little Bruce from down the street as a justification for keeping toys he doesn't think about even once.

    When was the actual last time you thought about Kandor before this run and concerned it a wellspring of stories. How often has there been an outcry for stories where Clark hangs out with his old Legion buds in the present as adults? How often have people even talked about him hanging out in the 31st century.

    Then the main argument I'm hearing now is more so devoted to the idea and only the idea of both "toys." There's nothing functional being asked for or lost.

    And all of this is coming from a person who has it well documented that they've wanted more done with Clark's link to both.

    But since they were not being used and I hardly ever saw fans here or otherwise dislodge themselves from the ideas of "modern day Golden age" or "more super family stuff" or some shipping war stuff to vent about how the Legion or Kandor is being underserved in relation to Clark, I just took it to mean both are nothing more than seldom remembered appendages that could be pointed to make some unrelated point in a debate. Feathers in Clark's cap.

    I just don't know, you guys. I'm struggling to look at it any other way. And again, I mean no disrespect. I never do. Threads like this just leave me scratching my head.

    In the immortal words of Drake "where yo ass was at?"
    I don't think you're being disrespectful at all.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but for my part I'm drawn to stories with a Silver Age bent and loved Morrison's Action run because it was the perfect fusion of Golden and Silver. And those of us who wanted a Legion connection didn't have to vocally cry for it because it was right there. Before the Bendis confirmation, I was praying for Hickman to get both Superman and the LoSH and write them as a dual run similar to his Avengers books. I haven't really consistently enjoyed anything Superman related since Morrison, so that's where my ass was at :P, but I was hopeful for Bendis and bought some of the issues before trade waiting. As for where others were, maybe they were concerned with the connection but had other more pressing concerned, or just assumed whatever was going on with the Legion had to wait until Doomsday Clock was done, but a Superman connection is still evident there. Plus, I have some Silver Age legion archives and the Great Darkness Saga, and Clark is in those, so DC doing stuff like "it's still the same Superman with his full history...except for XYZ" just annoys the piss out of me. Ditto a lot of their other properties (chiefly Wonder Woman). Like, hand the toys down to Jon, but don't erase the fact that Clark had them first, y'know? Satisfy as many people as possible with this.

    I'm less attached to Kandor, but the important distinction is that it was around and Bendis acknowledged the general history and lore of what it was and Superman's connection to it before he killed it off. That's better to me than it never having existed.

    I dunno now though, I think I've adopted a "wait until it's all said and done and gauge everyone's reactions before giving it another try" the way I have for King's Batman run.

  4. #19
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Could they survive outside the bottle? That'd be kinda crazy. The Fortress will apparently go missing soon. Everyone assumes Lois steals it in the YOTV stuff, maybe some still shrunken Kandorians hung around and take off with it!
    Could be!

    As for your first point: yeah, I've heard that they can't, as well - but there're always comic-book-y ways to get around that.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
    www.jamiekelleymusic.com
    TV interview here: https://snjtoday.com/snj-today-hotline-jamie-kelley/

  5. #20
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,746

    Default

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pre-Crisis Superman and Post-Crisis Superman don't mix well, you can't just take Pre-Crisis stuff and slap it on Post-Crisis Superman because it will never acclimate to him. It'll just be sort of misshapen and borderline unrecognizable like pretty much all of the post 90's face lifts have all been. I'm not frustrated or upset but it all seems kind of fruitless; they're trying to make two things merge that just don't. If you want Pre-Crisis Superman around then just go get him.

    I think Bendis like all Post-Crisis writers is just trying to make everyone happy but frankly I don't want my Pre-Crisis stuff watered down with Post-Crisis stuff and I think Post-Crisis reader probably feel the same.


    Although I think rather funny that we keep having to go through a new origin story every couple of years while the Pre-Crisis writers kind of figure it was more interesting to just write about the guys formative years long form. If the Post-Crisis writers could swallow their pride on the whole "normal childhood" thing maybe they could see the light too.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    2,544

    Default

    Kandor doesn’t really feel like it’s that out of place with Post-Crisis Supes though. I mean Johns Brainiac has pretty much become THE Brainiac for people.

  7. #22

    Default

    Kandor can and probably will return. As soon as a new writer comes along that wants it back, it will return. Just like I can't wait for the real Superman to return, the one who is happily married to Lois, is not cucked, and would not allow his son to run off with his psycho dad.

  8. #23
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pre-Crisis Superman and Post-Crisis Superman don't mix well, you can't just take Pre-Crisis stuff and slap it on Post-Crisis Superman because it will never acclimate to him. It'll just be sort of misshapen and borderline unrecognizable like pretty much all of the post 90's face lifts have all been. I'm not frustrated or upset but it all seems kind of fruitless; they're trying to make two things merge that just don't. If you want Pre-Crisis Superman around then just go get him.

    I think Bendis like all Post-Crisis writers is just trying to make everyone happy but frankly I don't want my Pre-Crisis stuff watered down with Post-Crisis stuff and I think Post-Crisis reader probably feel the same.


    Although I think rather funny that we keep having to go through a new origin story every couple of years while the Pre-Crisis writers kind of figure it was more interesting to just write about the guys formative years long form. If the Post-Crisis writers could swallow their pride on the whole "normal childhood" thing maybe they could see the light too.
    I know I don't speak for everybody, but I'm a big Post-Crisis fan who's happy to have an "almost everything counts if you don't really pay attention" kinda continuity like one that's happening over in the Batman books. I don't mind a mix, really, if it can bring the best pieces of all under one roof.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
    www.jamiekelleymusic.com
    TV interview here: https://snjtoday.com/snj-today-hotline-jamie-kelley/

  9. #24
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Well, one story had the bottle get shattered, but the reason Superman hadn't just cut the bottle open was that version had a fancy spatial compression thing and when the bottle was broken it actually shifted into the Phantom Zone or something.
    Sorry I missed this. Interesting! That could be one way to save them, actually - they're all trapped in the Zone.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
    www.jamiekelleymusic.com
    TV interview here: https://snjtoday.com/snj-today-hotline-jamie-kelley/

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Could they survive outside the bottle? That'd be kinda crazy. The Fortress will apparently go missing soon. Everyone assumes Lois steals it in the YOTV stuff, maybe some still shrunken Kandorians hung around and take off with it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    So this is gonna sound meaner than I'm actually intending it to.

    Over the past couple of days hearing about some fans taking issue with Superman not being with the Legion first and now, apparently, Kandor getting broken, I can't help but make a comparison:

    Little Jimmy really likes the idea of his Legion toy and his the idea of his Kandor toy, but he's long since stopped playing with them or even mentioning them. They're just toys that he has so he can say he has them. And when you try and take them away or just move it right down the hall (still well within Jimmy's reach) Jimmy gets mad and all of a sudden they're the most important things to him. And Jimmy brings up rich little Bruce from down the street as a justification for keeping toys he doesn't think about even once.

    When was the actual last time you thought about Kandor before this run and concerned it a wellspring of stories. How often has there been an outcry for stories where Clark hangs out with his old Legion buds in the present as adults? How often have people even talked about him hanging out in the 31st century.

    Then the main argument I'm hearing now is more so devoted to the idea and only the idea of both "toys." There's nothing functional being asked for or lost.

    And all of this is coming from a person who has it well documented that they've wanted more done with Clark's link to both.

    But since they were not being used and I hardly ever saw fans here or otherwise dislodge themselves from the ideas of "modern day Golden age" or "more super family stuff" or some shipping war stuff to vent about how the Legion or Kandor is being underserved in relation to Clark, I just took it to mean both are nothing more than seldom remembered appendages that could be pointed to make some unrelated point in a debate. Feathers in Clark's cap.

    I just don't know, you guys. I'm struggling to look at it any other way. And again, I mean no disrespect. I never do. Threads like this just leave me scratching my head.

    In the immortal words of Drake "where yo ass was at?"
    I was upset when Kandor was destroyed. I think i mentioned about that in my post when it happened. I have always enjoyed the weird sci-fi stories. Kandor, Superman robots, etc. The Fortress of Superman alone can give rise to a large number of stories. I always prefer expanding the scope as well as depth of the mythos. You can do so much with Superman.

    So, i did not like Kandor being destroyed after it was confirmed that it existed. For the record i would always like to see writers make more use of these ideas. Like Superman seeing doctors in Kandor. Jimmy having adventures in Kandor. And so on.

    What i am annoyed is that Legion is taken away from Superman, and Jon is getting credit for UP. I admit that i was thinking that this could be one way of having the two opposites of Superman not having a Legion career and Legion being a part of Superman. But by Jon getting credit for UP, i am soured.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Could they survive outside the bottle? That'd be kinda crazy. The Fortress will apparently go missing soon. Everyone assumes Lois steals it in the YOTV stuff, maybe some still shrunken Kandorians hung around and take off with it!
    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    I know I don't speak for everybody, but I'm a big Post-Crisis fan who's happy to have an "almost everything counts if you don't really pay attention" kinda continuity like one that's happening over in the Batman books. I don't mind a mix, really, if it can bring the best pieces of all under one roof.
    Same thing with me. Truly speaking Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis Superman can't mix well. But if there is a way to have the best parts from both i will take it in a heartbeat.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,011

    Default

    They've already (rightfully) abandoned the post-Crisis edicts that there are no other survivors of Krypton so we can at least get Supergirl, Krypto and the Phantom Zone crowd along with Kandor, and have integrated Lex being a mad super criminal scientist and evil businessman. Clark's death and return and marriage to Lois are intact. Brainiac was never Milton Fine and ate brains, and is back to bottling space cities.

    With all those in place, just having a pre-Crisis dynamic with the Legion doesn't seem too much to ask for.

  13. #28
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Here's a thought about Kandor, that actually has to do with the Leviathan story: we just saw Amanda Waller of all people have tech that can fool sensors and wasn't (somehow) noticed by Kryptonian eyes.

    What if a handful Kandorians did the same? And while they can't be enlarged again with it hurting them, they use stolen tech from Brainiac to reconstruct the bottle and start over.


    I'm just saying that, in comics, there are more ways than I can count to bring back Kandor in some way that doesn't involve a reboot.



    Maybe Rogol only thought he destroyed Kandor. Maybe the fortress had safeguards in place to protect Kandor. When Rogol broke into the fortress, Kandor was shunted into a safe place. It was replaced with a decoy that was so convincing that Rogol thought it was the real thing.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,781

    Default

    A toy sitting on the shelf, even seldom used, is still sitting on the shelf though, and better than the same toy broken.

    And of course, the elephant in the room is that the toy is still on the shelf. Rogol Zaar can no more stop the Bottle City from being used if a future writer wants to use it than he could actually kill Superman and keep him dead. I'm not saying that to exonerate Bendis though - it's shortsighted to make big sweeping changes like that.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  15. #30
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    Maybe Rogol only thought he destroyed Kandor. Maybe the fortress had safeguards in place to protect Kandor. When Rogol broke into the fortress, Kandor was shunted into a safe place. It was replaced with a decoy that was so convincing that Rogol thought it was the real thing.
    True - though it also fooled both Superman and Supergirl. So it would have to be something none of them knew about. Which is entirely possible, of course.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
    www.jamiekelleymusic.com
    TV interview here: https://snjtoday.com/snj-today-hotline-jamie-kelley/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •