Kandorian genocide an early warning sign

[magha_regulus]

I've been reflecting on Bendis' run in light of the disappointment I'm feeling with his handling of the Legion. I don't think the way he killed off all of the Kandorians has been given the attention it deserves. This was a critical warning sign of what his run wad going to be like. He takes a classic element of the mythos and obliterates it's potentialand dishonors the actual origins of the concept to fit his take. There are for sure some great ideas in this run but he's really dropping feces all over classic elements of the mythos.

I'm of conflicted feelings on his run (really everything since the New 52 ended).

[magha_regulus]

In my opinion of you take something away you've got to replace it with something of equal or greater value.

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Superman as the leader of the UP, Jon with the Legion, and Zod as a supporting character is better than having the bottle city of kandor and not using it.

The last story actively using Kandor was New Krypton. Over a decade ago. So we are missing something that was barely there. And it's so easy to bring kandor back that it's barely a loss.

[Yoda]

With the scrutiny every decision Bendis has made on these books, starting from his announcement, I think the fact that no one really blinked an eye at Kandor being fridged for Zaar's badass cred says all that we really need to know about the value fans placed on Kandor. Kandor for the most part was literally a bottle sitting on a shelf. One of the few stories that they could do with it, the citizens being returned to normal size, has already been done. And did it even exist in the New 52? I want to say it didn't. I'm forgetting if it even existed for most of post-Crisis actually.

I think using your calculus, from DC's POV taking the Legion "away" from Clark and giving it to Jon likely is adding something of value. They are relaunching the Legion with a fresh continuity, using the model that historically was the most successful (Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes) and building Jon's character out in the process. And like Kandor, what they have "taken" from Clark is something that only a dwindling number of fans even recall and hasn't been an active part of his backstory for over 30 years (with maybe three years after Secret Origin that it was back in). They are going to do the story of Superman founding the UP and being it's first leader. It was Jon's general idea, but Clark's implementing it completely. It really is not stripping all that much. The Legion is still directly inspired by the Superman family, and it actually builds off the legacy of Superman more. Now it really is an actual legacy creation. Something he and his son created.

That is more of a legacy than he had before for most of the last few decades. And actively, storywise, we have two stories from that they can tell off this. The UP and LoSH. I guess I can understand it stinging a little, but at the same time it's almost a question of semantics. I'm really generally nonplussed by the whole thing. Plus, now Damian, Clark, Lois, etc. can visit Jon in the future! That'd be a fun story.

[SiegePerilous02]

With the scrutiny every decision Bendis has made on these books, starting from his announcement, I think the fact that no one really blinked an eye at Kandor being fridged for Zaar's badass cred says all that we really need to know about the value fans placed on Kandor. Kandor for the most part was literally a bottle sitting on a shelf. One of the few stories that they could do with it, the citizens being returned to normal size, has already been done. And did it even exist in the New 52? I want to say it didn't. I'm forgetting if it even existed for most of post-Crisis actually.

I think using your calculus, from DC's POV taking the Legion "away" from Clark and giving it to Jon likely is adding something of value. They are relaunching the Legion with a fresh continuity, using the model that historically was the most successful (Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes) and building Jon's character out in the process. And like Kandor, what they have "taken" from Clark is something that only a dwindling number of fans even recall and hasn't been an active part of his backstory for over 30 years (with maybe three years after Secret Origin that it was back in). They are going to do the story of Superman founding the UP and being it's first leader. It was Jon's general idea, but Clark's implementing it completely. It really is not stripping all that much. The Legion is still directly inspired by the Superman family, and it actually builds off the legacy of Superman more. Now it really is an actual legacy creation. Something he and his son created.

That is more of a legacy than he had before for most of the last few decades. And actively, storywise, we have two stories from that they can tell off this. The UP and LoSH. I guess I can understand it stinging a little, but at the same time it's almost a question of semantics. I'm really generally nonplussed by the whole thing. Plus, now Damian, Clark, Lois, etc. can visit Jon in the future! That'd be a fun story.

Kandor existed in the New 52, at least in Morrison's arc. He rescued it along with the other bottle cities from Brainiac.

Kandor getting destroyed isn't as big of a deal in comparison because at least it's place in the lore would be intact before Zaar killed them off. They existed and Superman continuity is (more or less) untouched. But if we justify farming out Clark's milestones to other characters, he's not going to have anything left. He's not the first superhero in his continuity anymore, they are likely going to restore the JSA at some point. His status as the mightiest is constantly questioned. And now he has no prior connection to the Legion and isn't that important to their history, the general DCU heroes and his son are. it doesn't need to be a legacy creation along with a son that was only just recently awkwardly shoehorned into history, it should be Clark's the way it always was. Removing it from his backstory back during COIE didn't exactly do him or the Legion any favors, and while SO sucked, it deserves props for undoing that mistake. Clearly his milestones must be important if DC feels the need to take them and spread them out to other characters who don't even need them, with not much care for how it impacts him.

Nobody has an issue with other supers joining the Legion (like Kara or Kon), but this is a bit much.

[Vordan]

Kandor unfortunately has spent more time in recent years dead or nonexistent, so I doubt most Superman fans really care. Post-Crisis Kandor wasn’t even Kryptonian until Johns reintroduced the Kryptonian Kandor into continuity. Then Kandor/New Krypton got destroyed in a totally uninspired way during War of the Supermen, and then wiped out by the reboot. Kandor was in the New 52 where outside of Supes saving it at the end of Morrison’s run, the only use the Kandorians got was as human bullets during a Batman/Superman arc.

So really it’s hard to care too much that they’re gone for me. Rogal killing them shows what a monster he is, and they’ve spent more time dead than alive anyway.

[Yoda]

Kandor existed in the New 52, at least in Morrison's arc. He rescued it along with the other bottle cities from Brainiac.

Kandor getting destroyed isn't as big of a deal in comparison because at least it's place in the lore would be intact before Zaar killed them off. They existed and Superman continuity is (more or less) untouched. But if we justify farming out Clark's milestones to other characters, he's not going to have anything left. He's not the first superhero in his continuity anymore, they are likely going to restore the JSA at some point. His status as the mightiest is constantly questioned. And now he has no prior connection to the Legion and isn't that important to their history, the general DCU heroes and his son are. it doesn't need to be a legacy creation along with a son that was only just recently awkwardly shoehorned into history, it should be Clark's the way it always was. Removing it from his backstory back during COIE didn't exactly do him or the Legion any favors, and while SO sucked, it deserves props for undoing that mistake. Clearly his milestones must be important if DC feels the need to take them and spread them out to other characters who don't even need them, with not much care for how it impacts him.

Nobody has an issue with other supers joining the Legion (like Kara or Kon), but this is a bit much.

I suspect the JSA is not going to return into Earth 0 or whatever the Rebirth Earth ends up being called at the end of Doomsday Clock. The JSA reappearing in Justice League is I think going to be from another Earth. If that's been announced and I'm wrong, correct me. But Doomsday Clock basically established he's the center of the metaverse to the point where all reality restructures around changes to his history. So I mean, conceptually, he's still the most important and practically, he'll still likely be the first public superhero on the Rebirth Earth.

I guess the way I look at it is, they are never going to make Clark Superboy again. Those stories are not coming back in the way that they existed before. At most, we'd get like a Smallville type take. So shipping Jon, a legitimate clear Superboy, off to the Legion makes sense. Like you said, cutting the Legion off from Superman didn't work. They aren't doing that here, they are just fitting into a version of continuity that lets them have a Superboy. It's backstory, not story and doesn't add anything really to the equation other than what amounts to basically bragging rights. Storywise, it doesn't take all that much away. And unfortunately, broadening the Legion to take inspiration from all the heroes does in fact broaden not only the fanbase but the scope of stories they can tell. It makes sense to me.

Jon's existence is explainable in one sentence - "He's Superman and Lois Lane's son." That is a marketing dream. No clones, etc. Him being shoehorned into the continuity is an issue for like 1% of the fans who need to know who changes the Batmobiles tires. No one else cares. It doesn't make or break stories at all. I just don't see it being that big of a deal. Having a Superboy in the Legion helps more than tweaking the Legion's origin hurts.

[The_Lurk]

I've been reflecting on Bendis' run in light of the disappointment I'm feeling with his handling of the Legion. I don't think the way he killed off all of the Kandorians has been given the attention it deserves. This was a critical warning sign of what his run wad going to be like. He takes a classic element of the mythos and obliterates it's potentialand dishonors the actual origins of the concept to fit his take. There are for sure some great ideas in this run but he's really dropping feces all over classic elements of the mythos.

I'm of conflicted feelings on his run (really everything since the New 52 ended).

As a primary SC Trade reader I can only go by his Man of Steel run for now but so far I'm not really impressed. Another one on the pile of "why Krypton got destroyed" and the mentioned Kandor killing which came to me as a mixture of spiteful disrespect and shock value seeking. The book self contained was entertaining. I feel he got Supes and his reactions right. I just do not think he should have gone back reinventing the wheel again; it felt superfluous. Also feels a bit too hellbent on Supes being the last Kryptonian period. I still wait for the AC & SM issues 1 to be shipped but I brace myself already (and probably wont read any further beyond the OP of this and similar topics; already a bit peeved to have gotten all the hints to Heroes in Crisis spoilers).