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  1. #1
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    Default Is Osborn responsible for his actions?

    Or was his mind altered because the green chemical that blew up in his face?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Peter Parker (thought bubbles): "He was just a greedy, ruthless businessman before his accident...But the chemical changed him...for the worse!"
    -- ASM #40, Written by Stan Lee.

    Norman Osborn before the serum was a piece of work. He was never really a good person. The formula merely confirmed his worst traits rather than change him in any sense.

  3. #3
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    Sounds about right. I guess it's the same with Doc Ock.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Otto and Norman both had abusive fathers, yet I have always found Otto to be more sympathetic since he might have become better if not for his mother. Norman pretty much became an unpleasant guy from early on, and the Goblin serum made him much worse, if less disciplined and more reckless.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Peter Parker (thought bubbles): "He was just a greedy, ruthless businessman before his accident...But the chemical changed him...for the worse!"
    -- ASM #40, Written by Stan Lee.

    Norman Osborn before the serum was a piece of work. He was never really a good person. The formula merely confirmed his worst traits rather than change him in any sense.
    Norman Osborn was already a monster before becoming the Green Goblin. The accident only made the monster to come out.

  6. #6
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    It’s at this point I remember the half a dozen retcons that don’t just make him out to be an asshole but also what might as well be the devil. You can’t have it both ways by having him crazy being unable to help himself AND have him be a complete monster. The comics do both but since for whatever reason writers have to keep JO a long dead plot point (Gwen Stacy) and hyping him up he has to keep getting worse. It’s indecisive at best.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by williamtheday View Post
    Sounds about right. I guess it's the same with Doc Ock.
    tell that to the 'superior spOck' acolytes.

  8. #8
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    Norman Osborn became a monster the moment his wife died. The goblin formula was not even the problem itself, as it was later retconned that it was Harry's fault (enraged with his absent father, he doctored the original formula. Norman did not knew it because he thought his son was too witless to do something like that and he attributed the mistake to his own tiredness and stress).

    Basically Norman never had high esteem of his own son, but wasn't a monster. Even Harry understood that deep down Norman tried to be a decent father.
    But Norman's breakdown was due his wife's death, mainly.

    Of course he later enjoyed being the Green Goblin and his plan was to kill Spider-Man off to prove his worth and being the new leader of the underground mobs (the ones opposing the Maggia families).

    Doc Ock was just a huge egomaniac who wanted to improve the world. He later developed a paranoid personality and thought that the world set a scheme against him and his genius.

    Both are guilty, not directly for their actions, but for enjoying their current situation. They never seem to have regrets or guilts for what they did.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    It depends in at which time of his chronology you grab the character. The Stan Lee-Ditko-Romita Sr Osborn, though not a great person, was far from the pyschotic Osborn when he wasn't under the effects of the Goblin Serum. He did a bad play at Stromm, who wasn't a great man either, but I don't recall an illegal action from him before the accident (he wanted Stromm's formula, but used legal resources to get rid of him). Besides, his crimes as the Green Goblin weren't as terrible as they become with the death of Gwen Stacy (not because he was a less deadly Green Goblin, but because Spider-Man stopped him). But with retcons, he has turned into a man that was always bad and that seems would've ended comitting crimes even without the accident. Also, the Goblin/Osborn persona under some writers is more mixed than the radically different man he was when he wasn't under the effects of it in the classic stories. I know Slott did an arc with an Osborn who had lost the powers and crazyness of the GG, but I haven't read it. Still, it looks like Osborn is just as bad without the formula in that version. Nowadays, I think Osborn must be held responsible for his crimes. In the old stories, he should have been under the vigilance of experts and even be held in a mental hospital
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

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  10. #10
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    Even if he isn't responsible, what are you supposed to do with him? Can you really trust to rehabilitate him?

  11. #11
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Before his death, you could argue that Obsorn and the Goblin were two separate beings since Osborn would get amnesia and therefore was just another victim of the Green Goblin. After his death, the "good" Osborn died and only the Goblin remains who is well aware of his actions
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  12. #12

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    Yes, he was always responsible for his actions.

    He was always aware of his actions, no split personality or anything of that sort surfaced before the 90s cartoon decided that the shock induced amnesia that made him a decent human being in old comics was not the same thing as the adaption they did and David Koepp followed suit with.
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  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    In Lee-Ditko's run, if you read ASM #37 and ASM #38, it's pretty clear that Norman and Goblin are one and the same, and that Norman is a rational actor.

    The idea of Norman being insane or transformed via chemicals was something Lee-Romita introduced. It wasn't grounded in anything before.

    If you read ASM #39, Harry tells Peter that Norman's changed in recent years and they have grown distant and they used to be real pals.

    If you read 2 issues before, Norman and Harry are shown having a warm relationship. And in ASM#39, Norman graciously lets Harry borrow his car and so on.

    None of Lee-Ditko's villains were insane. They were evil but there was never a sense that they weren't acting rationally within the confines of the story.

    In a way, Norman Post-Resurrection has lapsed back into the character that Ditko wrote and envisioned, where to the extent that there's any difference between Norman and Goblin, it's of degree rather than kind.

    Weisman's Spectacular Spider-Man adapted Ditko's version perfectly, you have Norman and Goblin being one and the same, and Norman effortlessly compartmentalized both parts of his life.

  14. #14
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    Didnt Ocks brain get damaged due to the radiation that fused his tentacles to his spine?

  15. #15
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    The Gooby Juice isn't the green substance that corrupted Normie. The money is.
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

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