Which characters' best stories are behind them.

[lemonpeace]

that's not to say good or great stories can't be done with these characters but which characters do you think have had their best and/or most definitive stories already told. simple question, answer as detailed as you wish.

[Tzigone]

Heroes only, or also villains?

[Godlike13]

This is a rather glass half empty sort of thing.

[lemonpeace]

Heroes only, or also villains?

villains too if you like

This is a rather a glass half empty sort of thing.

I don't mean for it to be, I saw this question asked pertaining to Batman and was just curious which character people feel may be at that point in their career as well. i don't see it as particularly pessimistic, to me it more like there are just some character who have just been around so long or just have stories that define them in such a way that no matter how good their later stories are, they can't top or define the character in the same way.

[Pohzee]

Swamp Thing
The Titans
The YJ4

[LordAllMIghty]

No such thing. A good writer can easily revitalize a character or team.

[Electricmastro]

Batman might be one of them, because stories like The Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke, The Long Halloween, A Death in the Family, and Arkham Asylum are quite the tough acts to follow-up on.

[Vordan]

The answer is “none” because we have no idea what the future holds. There was a time when Mr. Freeze showed up in Limbo in Grant Morrison’s Animal Man because everyone thought he sucked. You never know who is going to come along and totally revamp a character.

But franchises that are at an all time low right now? Titans. I liked Glasses Teen Titans run for what it’s worth, but I doubt it’s going to revitalize the franchise like Hickman is doing the X-Men.

[Tzigone]

i don't see it as particularly pessimistic, to me it more like there are just some character who have just been around so long or just have stories that define them in such a way that no matter how good their later stories are, they can't top or define the character in the same way.

Depends if winds ever shift enough that certain characters can be redefined. Batman is so big that he's going to keep getting very big stories for a while. But he's been around a long time and had lots of big stories before and a few defining ones. He's also been redefined - right now I don't see that happening again soon (even if I'd like it to, since I like the older version) because comics in general have an older fanbase who likes their set backstories, DC is big on the gritty, and he's selling the way he is. But most heroes can always face something bigger, or something scarier, or something that hurts more and often overcome it. I think they're easier to give new better stories. Of course, bigger doesn't actually mean better, but they are the ones that get remembered. Frankly I'm kind of burnt out on events and bigger and more death every time, but they do sell, they are the ones most likely to be made into movies (animated or live action) and so they are the defining ones.

Villains, I think can be somewhat easier to write off as having done their biggest bit. They can also be redefined, of course, but they are usually more marked by how big or how important to the hero they are. If rewritten sympathetically, that can redefine a villain, but not one I see for the Joker. For me, I don't see the Joker ever topping his most-impactful achievements. But it's a personal perception. I don't like The Killing Joke - I don't like the "one bad day" victim element, and I don't like how Barbara Gordon was treated as prop, instead of a hero and important character herself (being explicitly de-herofied before this, which was terrible, even though I admit she hadn't been used really, in a while - also doesn't make sense that she stayed paralyzed given the abilities/tech existing in the DC universe, but it had more dramatic weight). But it was a huge and defining story and, with the creation of Oracle, became even more so. I don't even think A Death in the Family is a good story (plotholes, continuity issues, etc.), but it killed Jason Todd. That was big. Less so now, because of reversals. But I don't think those can be topped, in terms of emotional impact, especially now, when the audience doesn't trust anything to last. I think this is something that especially applies a hero's one big villain. He can do big mass murders, of course, but people don't tend to remember them so well.

In all fairness - I don't like generally dark, gritty, or depressing, no matter how skillfully-executed. Not a fan of the morally gray. A mature rating on a comic is a sign for me that I'm not likely to enjoy it. A lot stories the fandom thinks of as "defining" and "best" fit that category.

Then you have stories that are big, but not necessarily good. Ted Kord and Max Lord. If resurrected (and both have been), I think it's probably easier for the hero to end up topping that death story. Max is tainted by it - and the shocking revelation, as it were. Being not widely known in a bigger audience (despite a large number of appearances for the characters) and having not been adapted (as far as I know), they are more accessible for redefining differently, I think. And less tied to that one event (especially since comic book deaths are so easily undone). Death alone isn't enough to make a story big or define a character (like I never see Ice's discussed when talking about her character). Max has been on Supergirl lately, though, which is a broader audience, and an opportunity. I don't watch the show though, so don't know how it went.

The answer is “none” because we have no idea what the future holds. There was a time when Mr. Freeze showed up in Limbo in Grant Morrison’s Animal Man because everyone thought he sucked. You never know who is going to come along and totally revamp a character.

Which is why, when we say best stories behind them, we have to think of characters that have had really big, really good, stories in the past - ones that really made an impact. If the character hasn't even really done anything, it's pretty easy to top.

[TheBatman]

Modern Batman comes to mind.

I'm also starting to think that Superman fits the bill as well.

The Wolfman/Perez Titans seems to be the only Titans run that is absolutely essential.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Every time somebody says something like that about a character, a team of talented creators comes around and proves them completely wrong.

[Citizen Kane]

Batman might be one of them, because stories like The Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke, The Long Halloween, A Death in the Family, and Arkham Asylum are quite the tough acts to follow-up on.

A good story is only as good as its villain. I wouldn't say we've seen the last of the best Batman stories quite yet.

[Godlike13]

Every time somebody says something like that about a character, a team of talented creators comes around and proves them completely wrong.

And not just that, great stories are now coming in different forms. Like with TV shows, movies, and even video games.

[Fromper]

13 posts and no mention of Wally West? That's kinda surprising.

Does anyone really believe that the JSA or Legion will ever return to the greatness of their past?

And then there are the characters we can safely say we'll never see again, like Matrix (Supergirl).

[iron chimp]

Doom Patrol: the chief as Machiavellian puppet master was very funny but it ended the book. Not only was the run one of genius which in itself wont be beaten but the structure of the story left the chief irredeemable.