House of X #3 *spoilers*

[jamesslow]

I doubt they're gonna like...really punish him.

Didn't Xavier tell Scott to try to avoid casualties aboard that flying iphone but if necessary ....it is what it is?
They stole information that's gonna save mutant-kind, doubt they'll really punish him. Emma, "he's out animal".

In writing a story as big and intricate as this, there are gonna be plot holes or logic gaps, and none of us here could have written this as well as Hickman has so far, obviously, but the one concerning Sabretooth is a doozy.

Sleeping Giant (one can't help but imagine this is a spy in the ranks of Orchis) warns Xavier that Mother Mold is being prepped to come online so Krakoa needs to steal the Sol's Anvil blueprints ASAP. An eminently reasonable act of self defence.

PROBLEM 1
Why did Charles send self-named "evil mutants" Mystique, Toad and Sabretooth when (as someone above suggested) Kitty, Kurt and Logan could have done the job as well without loss of innocent lives?

For storytelling reasons, Hickman clearly did so to let Creed commit murder so that Emma could play the immunity card. But in-story? Can't see why...

[Killerbee911]

PROBLEM 1
Why did Charles send self-named "evil mutants" Mystique, Toad and Sabretooth when (as someone above suggested) Kitty, Kurt and Logan could have done the job as well without loss of innocent lives?

For storytelling reasons, Hickman clearly did so to let Creed commit murder so that Emma could play the immunity card. But in-story? Can't see why...

Because if the mission parameters changed and they needed to take innocent lives then Sabertooth,Mystique and toad would kill and Kitty,Logan and Kurt wouldn't kill innocent guards. They were sent on the mission because they would do whatever takes to get the mission done. I don't know people think that Xavier is still playing nice with humans. Xavier seems to be very much operating in the great good area from what I am seeing. If means eventually peace with humans and survival of mutants what lengths would you take for peace?

Also Krakoa is a nation, Sabertooth is an government asset who got capture during a mission. You don't let your operative sit in jail if you have the power to get them out regardless of what they did.

[JKtheMac]

It's not extinction. It's evolution. No one is wiping out humans - that's what humans want to do to Mutants. No toxic death cloud has been released. That's what inhumans do. Mutants have been pushed into a corner, but it's not one of their own making. They've been decimated, murdered, disenfranchised and this is the result.

Humans are the ones giving birth to Mutants. They are simply human with an extra skill. It's more like short people seeing the trend to people getting taller and deciding they want to wipe out tall people to keep the world short.

You are over-stretching that analogy, and misrepresenting the situation. Easier to say what is happening right now.

Humanity has run the numbers and realised they will be replaced if the mutant numbers are not kept down in the way they have been by events in the past, and at the same time mutants have become threatening strategically. This has triggered a response from a covert operation to neutralise the threat they have observed. Until they bring the Mother Mold online this is a Cold War, and or an unofficial conflict, with active preparations and actions on both sides threatening to turn it into a war.

Evolution does not necessarily involve conflict. Usually there would be none without intelligence. Even the mathematical projections are based on disputed science about the evolution of mankind. Hickman knows this as well as anyone.

[chaosfist]

It's not extinction. It's evolution. No one is wiping out humans - that's what humans want to do to Mutants. No toxic death cloud has been released. That's what inhumans do. Mutants have been pushed into a corner, but it's not one of their own making. They've been decimated, murdered, disenfranchised and this is the result.

Humans are the ones giving birth to Mutants. They are simply human with an extra skill. It's more like short people seeing the trend to people getting taller and deciding they want to wipe out tall people to keep the world short.

No extinction is extinction and that is what the mutants are currently working towards. Fighting against your own extinction is a logical response.

[Zelena]

On a subject quite similar to this, I prefer 'Slan' written by A. E. Van Vogt. In this book, the 'mutants' were indeed 'superior' to humans not a bunch of disparate individuals. As they were superior, they found a solution that was both clever and decent.

[JKtheMac]

No extinction is extinction and that is what the mutants are currently working towards. Fighting against your own extinction is a logical response.

They have set up the circumstances whereby they can’t easily be made extinct, by spreading across the solar system, and mankind has responded in kind and in similar scope. Both sides are justified in their own mode of thinking, and it takes that for conflict to escalate.

This is similar to the threat of the Tirpitz in WW2, and the mission to destroy it before it sailed.

[Devaishwarya]

A lot of the problem is that humans spent years if not decades automatically writing off all mutants as dangerous menaces with no regard or thought given to the idea that most mutants back then just wanted to live in some semblance of peace and that those grouped under the X-banner were willing to fight and die to protect the world and people that so often scorned and rejected them. The X-Men tried for years to find some way to get humanity to at least tolerate if not accept and respect their existence, believing that if they did enough good and heroic deeds, their examples would convince humans they were wrong to condemn all mutants, but they were constantly repaid with further abuse, further marginalization, and even further attempts at genocide, especially after the X-Men were all presumed dead (actually just swept up into Age of X-Man). Now they've decided they won't play by the same rules set to win the respect and acceptance of their oppressors anymore, and if fighting for the world won't stop humanity from hating and fearing them, they'll just have to fight for their own right to exist, so anybody opposed to that can keep doing what they were doing when mutants were being targeted for genocide and stay out of the way.

Exactatiously!
When looked at from this perspective, it's no different to when Black Americans said "Enough is enough!" stood up, came together and fought for their Civil Rights. HiX-Man, in just one story, has done what no other writer has been able to do...make the mutant/minority analogy truly important and relevant.

[Confuzzled]

Exactatiously!
When looked at from this perspective, it's no different to when Black Americans said "Enough is enough!" stood up, came together and fought for their Civil Rights. HiX-Man, in just one story, has done what no other writer has been able to do...make the mutant/minority analogy truly important and relevant.

Morrison did so too in NXM. Mutant sovereign state was also a thing explored before with Genosha. I feel instead of a separate nation, an America-wide Civil Rights movement for equal rights and status would have better served the franchise but I'm enjoying the optics of Krakoa's existence so can't complain.

[Jness]

In writing a story as big and intricate as this, there are gonna be plot holes or logic gaps, and none of us here could have written this as well as Hickman has so far, obviously, but the one concerning Sabretooth is a doozy.

Sleeping Giant (one can't help but imagine this is a spy in the ranks of Orchis) warns Xavier that Mother Mold is being prepped to come online so Krakoa needs to steal the Sol's Anvil blueprints ASAP. An eminently reasonable act of self defence.

PROBLEM 1
Why did Charles send self-named "evil mutants" Mystique, Toad and Sabretooth when (as someone above suggested) Kitty, Kurt and Logan could have done the job as well without loss of innocent lives?

For storytelling reasons, Hickman clearly did so to let Creed commit murder so that Emma could play the immunity card. But in-story? Can't see why...

I believe there’s a note in HoX 3 that indicates Creed is not the only mutant at the facility. Perhaps this is a “long play” to get the other 3 out?

[Silver Fang]

I believe there’s a note in HoX 3 that indicates Creed is not the only mutant at the facility. Perhaps this is a “long play” to get the other 3 out?

Good catch. I usually skim the pages. But yeah. The page about project Achilles.


At the top right, it says
Incoming 1
Mutant 1

But then at the bottom right, after a bit, it then says
Mutant 3

I think it was two mutants, but with Creed coming, that bumped the count to 3.

Either way, there are in fact more mutants there, so they'll probably will get bailed out as well at some point. Emma may go back for them once Creed is taken care of.

[anyajenkins]

So saw a couple things on another site that were some interesting points. 1. They didn’t take Krakoa flowers on the mission because they didn’t want Orchis to got a hold of them. But they’ve been using portal and making habitats all around where anyone could have already got a hold of them. 2. Does Hickman have writing quirk where he refers to female authority figures as mother? There have been the cuckoos (somewhat understandable) Pryo talking to Destiny and Moira as mother Akkaba. 3. Sending Sabretooth and mystique on a ‘very important mission’ is just dumb on the face of it. Sure they could make the ‘tough decisions’ (but making a ruckus to begin with could easily tip off Orchis that something was up) and either one of them could just as easily decide they just don’t feel like a very important mission and want to do something else.

[JKtheMac]

I believe there’s a note in HoX 3 that indicates Creed is not the only mutant at the facility. Perhaps this is a “long play” to get the other 3 out?

Or as I was speculating earlier, get some kind of message to them.

P.S. Emma and the cuckoos could be the 3 guests.

[The Jeeper 2.0]

So saw a couple things on another site that were some interesting points. 1. They didn’t take Krakoa flowers on the mission because they didn’t want Orchis to got a hold of them. But they’ve been using portal and making habitats all around where anyone could have already got a hold of them. 2. Does Hickman have writing quirk where he refers to female authority figures as mother? There have been the cuckoos (somewhat understandable) Pryo talking to Destiny and Moira as mother Akkaba. 3. Sending Sabretooth and mystique on a ‘very important mission’ is just dumb on the face of it. Sure they could make the ‘tough decisions’ (but making a ruckus to begin with could easily tip off Orchis that something was up) and either one of them could just as easily decide they just don’t feel like a very important mission and want to do something else.

The habitats arent the same things as seeds. They didnt want seeds to fall into Orchis hands.

[Huntsman Spider]

Exactatiously!
When looked at from this perspective, it's no different to when Black Americans said "Enough is enough!" stood up, came together and fought for their Civil Rights. HiX-Man, in just one story, has done what no other writer has been able to do...make the mutant/minority analogy truly important and relevant.

And let's not forget one more thing --- the mutant nation of Krakoa isn't declaring war on humanity. In fact, they've offered several olive branches to the human race to persuade them that nonaggression will benefit them as well. It's just that they've made it clear that further aggression from humanity will be taken as an attack on a sovereign people and nation, and nations do have the intrinsic right to determine their own destinies and futures without interference from others, as well as to retaliate with force, whether military, economic, or political, in the event that right is violated. That doesn't stop applying just because the nation in question is composed of superpowered mutants.

[Gladiator]

PROBLEM 1
Why did Charles send self-named "evil mutants" Mystique, Toad and Sabretooth when (as someone above suggested) Kitty, Kurt and Logan could have done the job as well without loss of innocent lives?

For storytelling reasons, Hickman clearly did so to let Creed commit murder so that Emma could play the immunity card. But in-story? Can't see why...

Maybe because they were stealing? Why send his goody goodies when you already have the bad apples?
I’d definitely send Mystique over other x-men