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  1. #16
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    Around this time, I had begun to suspect that all the pre-Crisis stories were going to be paved over, so I was happy to see Steve Englehart bring back a story that he had done during his great JLA run in 1977. I was relieved to know that not every story from the past would be forgotten.

    I remember really liking the eight issues of MILLENNIUM itself--and I've been a Joe Staton fan since his E-MAN run for Charlton. The books that interconnected with the event (and I believe I bought every single one--DC must have been so happy to steal my money), those were a mixed bag. I was probably the most upset by the FLASH and LSH crossovers because they destroyed continuity simply to fit in some Manhunters.

    In hindsight, it demonstrated what was good and what was bad about these events. It was good to have an event that built on previous continuity and establish important things about the universe going forward. It was bad to have individual titles going off their regular programming just to try and include themselves in the event, while destroying parts of their continuity to do so. We would get more of both in the following crossover events.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I think my biggest grumble with crossover events and books like All-Star Squadron/Young All-Stars and Legion is how contrived it can be to have the event occur in the same publication month, despite the time differences.

    It would be nice to have a separate mini-series for Legion that's set five or ten years in the past or future of their ongoing. And have that cross over with the event.

    Or even better, do the crossover a year before the event.
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  3. #18
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    This has to be the worst DC event. I can't even think of one that is worse.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    This has to be the worst DC event. I can't even think of one that is worse.
    Amazons Attack, Last Laugh, and Genesis would like to have a conversation with you...

  5. #20
    Spectacular Member Fromper's Avatar
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    You can definitely see in some of the later crossover events how they learned from these early attempts.

    I recently reread Underworld Unleashed, and that one worked much better. It had a 3 issue miniseries to tell its story, plus a few one-shots featuring specific characters. The crossovers in the individual titles really had nothing to do with that main UU story. They just featured villains who had gotten a power boost from making a deal with Neron in the mini, going against heroes that they usually didn't face. So it was a bunch of one shot stories mixing and matching heroes and villains who usually didn't fight. This made for a fun event, and each crossover issue was only as good or bad as its usual series.
    Just re-reading my old collection, filling in the occasional gap with back issues, not buying anything new.

    Currently working my way through 1990's Flash, Impulse, and JLA, and occasional other related stuff.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    The teases were great.
    Some of the Manhunter spies worked perfectly in their books, like Rocket Red in JLI who, unlike his successor, hadn't warmed up to the team or shown his identity. Or Laurel Kent in Legion, who had had an attepted-murder mystery earlier in the run where someone shot her with a Kryptonite bullet. Because of that story, no one would've expected her.
    Old-school Legion fans would disagree with you quite vehemently. In particular, I've seen many Legion fans argue that the story you cite as making her an unexpected choice should have instead made her an impossible choice, because surgery was required to be performed on her to save her life, and yet, 30th century medical science couldn't detect that she was a centuries-old robot and not an actual biological lifeform?

    Of course, the real reason Laurel Kent was chosen to be a Manhunter agent (and was subsequently destroyed) was because her origins as a descendant of Superman and the woman he would eventually marry were an artifact of the pre-Crisis Earth-One Superman lore. And since Byrne's Superman reboot forced the pocket universe retcon of the Superboy who was the Legion's inspiration and member (and Levitz's decision to kill him at the end of that story), not even fans' fondness for Laurel's stripperific outfits could save her.

  7. #22
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    This was the frustrating thing about MILLENNIUM because the body of the event seemed to confirm pre-Crisis continuity still being valid, but the limbs of the event seemed to sever ties with pre-Crisis. In addition to Laurel Kent (a character I really loved), there was Wally's father (Bob before Crisis, Rudolph after) who was retconned to be a bad father, in addition to being a Manhunter, whereas Wally had a good relationship with his father in pre-Crisis continuity. Also, it was confusing because some Manhunters were robots while othes were biological beings--I think so anyway--I could never figure out who was what and why were the Manhunters so random in choosing which kinds of agents they had in the field.

    I don't think that's a flaw in the body of the event--the stuff that Steve Englehart could control--it's a flaw in the limbs where the story was taken away from Steve and Joe and made to do things to the universe that other writers and editors wanted. Yet, given that MILLENNIUM was a direct sequel to JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA 140 (March 1977) and 141 (April 1977), it seemed to reattach the limbs of pre-Crisis continuity. But did it? This was my question--were we supposed to believe that the events in JLA had happened--which would mean Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman were all active with the JLA at the time--or were we supposed to imagine that almost the same events had happend as in the JLA story but with important alterations, where those characters werent involved? It was galling that DC never gave clear answers on this stuff.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I loved that the GLC had a Big event based on them and the GLC lore, but this one fell flat to me - especially because the New Guardians were so ... uninspired. I was also not a fan of Stanton's art of the time. He just didn't come across as a "Big Event" artist.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member ducklord's Avatar
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    As I mentioned above, one of my biggest problems with Millenium is that it didn't really stick the landing. The Manhunters were defeated, the Chosen were saved, and then this story that "wasn't about super-heroes" suddenly turned the Chosen into (super-heroes, and promptly sent them into a (mediocre) super-hero book.

    Feh.

    Still, though. Extrano could be a BITCHIN' solo title.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I was also not a fan of Stanton's art of the time.
    It's Staton which rhymes with Layton. Not being picky--I just think that's a handy thing to know when you're trying to remember names. Bob Layton, of course, often inked Joe Staton--and they both had common roots at Charlton. That's a ton of trivia.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Millennium was not bad, but I think it was seen as a step down from Crisis and Legends.

    Joe Staton's art really was a strike against it given how the previous two crossovers had George Perez and John Byrne art.
    Statons' art is very dependent on who is inking it. His work was more palatable under someone like Bob Layton. I don't know how Staton was ever assigned Millenium though. Maybe it was the brainchild of the GL crew -- and I think Staton was drawing of the GL books. Or maye since he was going to be drawing New Guardians (a book no one like), they let him do the mini leading up to it.

  12. #27
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    Fun fact: Joe Staton worked as an assistant to Gil Kane for about a year. Later on when he was doing GREEN LANTERN, Joe aped Gil's style on some of the flashback sequences (as they flashed back to Gil's time on the book).

    By the way: Did you know that Dave Cockrum was Murphy Anderson's assistant? That's how Dave ended up doing the Legion in SUPERBOY, because originally Murphy was pencilling them but then, since Dave liked doing the Legion so much, Murph handed the pencil chores to DC (that's Dave Cockrum not Detective Chimp).

    And did you also know that Don Newton was C.C. Beck's assistant? I gather this created some hard feelings between them later when Don got the Captain Marvel assignment at DC and rather than aping C.C.'s style, Don pencilled the Big Red Cheese in his own distinctive style (when if they had insisted on it, Newton could have easily reproduced the Beck style).

    My head is full of useless facts like these from reading too many comics fanzines.

  13. #28
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Maybe it was the brainchild of the GL crew -- and I think Staton was drawing of the GL books. Or maye since he was going to be drawing New Guardians (a book no one like), they let him do the mini leading up to it.
    During Crisis, the GL book did great sales as it became more of a team-up at that point. So the creative team of Englehart and Staton was rewarded with the next big event, which would be based on GL lore. But by the time Millenium started, Green Lantern was no longer doing well. And Millenium didn't do well, either.

    Which led to the cancellation of Green Lantern vol. 2 a few months later, and Englehart leaving DC for a couple of decades.

  14. #29
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    dunno' how it was received at the time, but I have to give it some credit for spawning this tie-in issue, which is really good. It showcases the origin of the Guardians of the Universe. Here is a picture I just took of my own copy because I felt like it was the most convenient way to get an image of the comic:



    All in all, I don't think the event was all that great, it didn't lead to anything that good, and the new characters it introduced were pretty ridiculous, but some of the tie-ins were cool.

  15. #30
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    At the time of Crisis, the only two franchises that were safe from all the retcons were Green Lantern and Titans. And I'm not sure Titans didn't ultimately suffer. But because Crisis depended on events from GREEN LANTERN (in particular issue 40), it was like the calm centre of the hurricane. The only real change it suffered was changing from a solo book to a team book (GREEN LANTERN CORPS).

    But there's a continuing pattern with Green Lantern that goes all the way back to the 1940s. It's a pattern of expansion and then retraction.

    Alan Scott and Doiby and Streak expanded from ALL-AMERICAN to ALL-STAR, COMIC CAVALCADE and GREEN LANTERN QUARTERLY and then retracted back to only ALL-STAR and then nothing.

    In the 1970s, GREEN LANTERN was cancelled and the only home Hal had was JLA and some issues of FLASH. Then in the 1980s, the presence of the GLC expanded until it too finally retracted. And so on in the 1990s and the 2000s.

    DC seems to always think they can expand out GL to many different titles and then reverses itself and cancels everything or almost everything, before rebuilding again.

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