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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Part of me is hesitant about seeing the movie, even though I'm 100% sure we'll be getting an award winning lead performance, because the movie just gives off an almost toxic vibe. I can't help but think I'll walk out of the theater feeling worse than I did when I first walked in. And part of me suspects that's exactly the intent of the movie.

    But we'll see. Could be reading too much into the previews.
    Without trying to be too much of a Debbie Downer, that is an absolutely reasonable intent.

    The actual world is often a place that will make you feel worse rather than better.

  2. #32
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Without trying to be too much of a Debbie Downer, that is an absolutely reasonable intent.

    The actual world is often a place that will make you feel worse rather than better.
    Not saying it's not reasonable. Simply trying to give voice as to my part of me is hesitant to see the movie. It's the exact opposite of what I usually want out of a super hero movie. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Without trying to be too much of a Debbie Downer, that is an absolutely reasonable intent.

    The actual world is often a place that will make you feel worse rather than better.
    Not really what inspires me to pay $15 for a movie though
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  4. #34
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Not really what inspires me to pay $15 for a movie though
    Yeah, that's the thing... movies aren't really that cheap anymore. I'll probably still see it... but paying 15 bucks for something that I'll end up feeling bad about seeing takes a bit of effort to mentally justify.

  5. #35
    Incredible Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Movie is earning some rave reviews.

    https://ew.com/film-festivals/2019/0...movie-reviews/



    “Get ready to rethink what’s possible in comic book movies,” Huges writes, adding that the film “ups the ante” previously established by critically lauded comic book movies like Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight and James Mangold’s Logan. “Joaquin Phoenix gives a tour de force performance, fearless and stunning in its emotional depth and physicality. It’s impossible to talk about this without referencing Heath Ledger’s Oscar-winning performance from The Dark Knight, widely considered the definitive live-action portrayal of the Joker, so let’s talk about it. The fact is, everyone is going to be stunned by what Phoenix accomplishes, because it’s what many thought impossible — a portrayal that matches and potentially exceeds that of The Dark Knight’s Clown Prince of Crime.”

    Phoenix leads Phillips’ fresh, gritty character study as Arthur Fleck, a societal outcast, amateur clown, and aspiring stand-up comic whose inner turmoil manifests in increasingly violent ways as he cares for his ailing mother (who wishes to get even with her former employers, the Wayne family) while grappling with an ill-intentioned talk show host (Robert De Niro) and a new relationship with his neighbor (Zazie Beetz). Variety‘s Owen Gleiberman calls the tale a “hypnotically perverse, ghoulishly grippingly urban-nightmare comic fantasia” and Phoenix’s performance “astonishing.”

    “He appears to have lost weight for the role, so that his ribs and shoulder blades protrude, and the leanness burns his face down to its expressive essence: black eyebrows, sallow cheeks sunk in gloom, a mouth so rubbery it seems to be snarking at the very notion of expression, all set off by a greasy mop of hair,” he continues. “Phoenix is playing a geek with an unhinged mind, yet he’s so controlled that he’s mesmerizing. He stays true to the desperate logic of Arthur’s unhappiness.”

    Writing for The Hollywood Reporter, David Rooney credits Phoenix as he “boldly reinvents” a character many think they know all too well.

    “The clown prince of crime is alive and mentally unwell in Gotham City in Todd Phillips’ grippingly atmospheric supervillain origin story, Joker,” reads his review. “While a never-better Joaquin Phoenix paints on the famed maniacal smile with his own blood at one memorable climactic moment of messianic rebirth, what’s most noteworthy about this gritty entry in the DC canon and the lead actor’s sensational performance is the pathos he brings to a pathetically disenfranchised character — just like countless others in a metropolis in which the social chasm separating the haves from the have-nots has become a pit of incendiary rage.”

    In a negative review, however, IndieWire‘s David Ehrlich calls the project “unquestionably the boldest reinvention of ‘superhero’ cinema since The Dark Knight,” and “a true original that’s sure to be remembered as one of the most transgressive studio blockbusters of the 21st Century,” though he calls Phillips a “glorified edgelord who lacks the discipline or nuance to responsibly handle such hazardous material, and who reliably takes the coward’s way out of the narrative’s most critical moments.”

    Still, he says Phoenix’s “hypnotic and inimitable performance would feel completely new if it didn’t borrow so much from his past work [as if] Freddie Quell and Theodore Twombly stepped into the teleportation machine from The Fly.“

    Joker hits theaters Friday, Oct. 4, following its planned pre-Oscar stop at the Toronto International Film Festival in September. Read on for more reviews of the movie out of the 2019 Venice Film Festival (which continues through Sept. 7) below.

    Mark Hughes (Forbes)
    “Joaquin Phoenix gives a tour de force performance, fearless and stunning in its emotional depth and physicality. It’s impossible to talk about this without referencing Heath Ledger’s Oscar-winning performance from The Dark Knight, widely considered the definitive live-action portrayal of the Joker, so let’s talk about it. The fact is, everyone is going to be stunned by what Phoenix accomplishes, because it’s what many thought impossible — a portrayal that matches and potentially exceeds that of The Dark Knight’s Clown Prince of Crime.”

    Terri White (Empire)
    “This could, particularly in the current climate, be viewed as a lament for outsiders and the ignored. That’s too simple and Joker does anything but deliver you easy answers. It’s a sad, chaotic, slow-burn study of someone who isn’t visible; who doesn’t even exist to the world around them. But your empathy, sympathy even, isn’t guaranteed, and it begins to dissolve as Arthur somehow moves even further to the edges. This is, we mustn’t forget, the story of how a villain was made. But what writer/director Todd Phillips and co-writer Scott Silver (8 Mile, The Fighter) have written into life is the Joker as a character. What they and the film is interested in is the mental, moral, emotional, physical make-up of the man who became the Joker. As Arthur/Joker, Joaquin Phoenix is astonishing. Phillips has said he had a picture of the actor above his screen when writing the script and it’s a belief that has paid off. Phoenix inhabits Arthur: having lost weight for the role, he looks thin, frail, hungry. Shadows carve out his exposed bones. His physicality is precise — the way he moves, shuffles, runs, sits, smokes, shrinks. His usual intensity is on full display and it’s captivating, even overwhelming in moments. Comparing him to Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson feels like a nonsense: this is a Joker we’ve never seen — in many respects it isn’t the Joker, it’s Arthur.”

    Owen Gleiberman (Variety)
    “Many have asked, and with good reason: Do we need another Joker movie? Yet what we do need — badly — are comic-book films that have a verité gravitas, that unfold in the real world, so that there’s something more dramatic at stake than whether the film in question is going to rack up a billion-and-a-half dollars worldwide. Joker manages the nimble feat of telling the Joker’s origin story as if it were unprecedented. We feel a tingle when Bruce Wayne comes into the picture; he’s there less as a force than an omen. And we feel a deeply deranged thrill when Arthur, having come out the other side of his rage, emerges wearing smeary make-up, green hair, an orange vest and a rust-colored suit.”

    David Rooney (The Hollywood Reporter)
    “The clown prince of crime is alive and mentally unwell in Gotham City in Todd Phillips’ grippingly atmospheric supervillain origin story, Joker. While a never-better Joaquin Phoenix paints on the famed maniacal smile with his own blood at one memorable climactic moment of messianic rebirth, what’s most noteworthy about this gritty entry in the DC canon and the lead actor’s sensational performance is the pathos he brings to a pathetically disenfranchised character — just like countless others in a metropolis in which the social chasm separating the haves from the have-nots has become a pit of incendiary rage…. But this is Phoenix’s film, and he inhabits it with an insanity by turns pitiful and fearsome in an out-there performance that’s no laughing matter. Not to discredit the imaginative vision of the writer-director, his co-scripter and invaluable tech and design teams, but Phoenix is the prime force that makes Joker such a distinctively edgy entry in the Hollywood comics industrial complex.”

    Jim Vejvoda (IGN)
    “Featuring a riveting, fully realized, and Oscar-worthy performance by Joaquin Phoenix, Joker would work just as well as an engrossing character study without any of its DC Comics trappings; that it just so happens to be a brilliant Batman-universe movie is icing on the Batfan cake. You will likely leave Joker feeling like I did: unsettled and ready to debate the film for years to come.”

    David Ehrlich (IndieWire)
    “By the time ‘The End’ comes in its cute, old-timey font, Joker is neither a game-changer nor just “another day in Chuckletown.” It’s both. It’s good enough to be dangerous, and bad enough to demand better. It’s going to turn the world upside down and make us all hysterical in the process. For better or worse, it’s exactly the movie the Joker would want.”

    Richard Lawson (Vanity Fair)
    “There is undeniable style and propulsive charge to Joker, a film that looms and leers with nasty inexorability. It’s exhilarating in the most prurient of ways, a snuff film about the death of order, about the rot of a governing ethos. But from a step back, outside in the baking Venetian heat, it also may be irresponsible propaganda for the very men it pathologizes. Is Joker celebratory or horrified? Or is there simply no difference, the way there wasn’t in Natural Born Killers or myriad other “America, man” movies about the freeing allure of depravity? The honest answer is, I don’t know. Not after one viewing, anyway. What I can tell you is that the reaction to the film from my packed audience of Italians and other international filmgoers sounded like roaring acclaim. Perhaps it’s a bit easier to accept and digest all this horror in a country where such men seem rarer—or I’m being an over-worried pill, and it’s just a good, startling movie.

  6. #36
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Good reviews there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Not seeing any relation to anything comic books here and it doesn't even seem like its trying to be a comic book movie. Probably a pass for me. Taxi Driver can use an update, I guess, but this movie doesn't even seem to do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    That is my feeling. The only reason this is even called Joker was to get it made. From all I have seen if you just called it The Clown and changed a few names the movie would not change one bit. It looks to me to have about as much to do with the comic Joker as the Catwoman movie did to the comic character.
    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Some will point to this as an example of how to push the edge with a comic book movie, but based on what we see here there is nothing about this movie that suggests comic book. I suspect there's a reason this is called Joker instead of The Joker.

    You can't turn something into a comic book movie just by adding a character named Wayne into it.

    This looks like a very, very well-done movie. It also looks like a genre I have no interest in. I applaud the craftsmanship that is apparent in the film, and I respect the people who will see it and enjoy it. But it's not for me.
    So some thoughts on the trailers are, it is sort of what it sounds like Pennyworth also is - loosely based on the comics for name recognition, but really could have been called something else without losing anything. Yeah, I can see that.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 09-01-2019 at 06:38 AM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Not saying it's not reasonable. Simply trying to give voice as to my part of me is hesitant to see the movie. It's the exact opposite of what I usually want out of a super hero movie. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that.
    Well, Joker isn't really a "superhero movie."

    It's not even a "supervillain movie."


    And I wouldn't have it any other way.

    I'm not really into movies that are depressing or nihilistic or even pessimistic, but for the character of the Joker, it's got me interested in seeing a type of movie that I wouldn't ordinarily see. So, maybe that makes me the opposite of some here.

    A hard-R, more mature approach to comic book movies is something I could really get into -- every once in awhile.

    I think it's good for the future of CBMs to show the full breadth of what comics are, could be, and should be.

    There will be some who dismiss it outright as not being appropriate for a CBM, and there will be others who love it just because it upends expectations no matter how good it actually is.

    I'm not into either knee-jerk repsonse. I'm into CBMs that are quality movies, and from the reactions to Joaquin Phoenix's performance, this looks to be just that. If he is really as good as the early critics are saying, I do hope he gets an Oscar nomination. If Anthony Hopkins could win for Hannibal Lechter, why not?

    If Joker lives up to this early hype, and we'll know in about a month, then this could help change the dismissive view that Academy members often have toward Comic Book Movies.

    I'm excited that a CBM is being praised for its acting.

    One thing's for sure: this movie is going to be talked about and debated in a more serious manner than the typical CBM. And that's a good thing.

  8. #38
    Fantastic Member Ozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    he calls Phillips a “glorified edgelord who lacks the discipline or nuance to responsibly handle such hazardous material, and who reliably takes the coward’s way out of the narrative’s most critical moments
    That's cause enough for concern.

  9. #39
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Well, Joker isn't really a "superhero movie."

    It's not even a "supervillain movie."


    And I wouldn't have it any other way.

    I'm not really into movies that are depressing or nihilistic or even pessimistic, but for the character of the Joker, it's got me interested in seeing a type of movie that I wouldn't ordinarily see. So, maybe that makes me the opposite of some here.

    A hard-R, more mature approach to comic book movies is something I could really get into -- every once in awhile.

    I think it's good for the future of CBMs to show the full breadth of what comics are, could be, and should be.

    There will be some who dismiss it outright as not being appropriate for a CBM, and there will be others who love it just because it upends expectations no matter how good it actually is.

    I'm not into either knee-jerk repsonse. I'm into CBMs that are quality movies, and from the reactions to Joaquin Phoenix's performance, this looks to be just that. If he is really as good as the early critics are saying, I do hope he gets an Oscar nomination. If Anthony Hopkins could win for Hannibal Lechter, why not?

    If Joker lives up to this early hype, and we'll know in about a month, then this could help change the dismissive view that Academy members often have toward Comic Book Movies.

    I'm excited that a CBM is being praised for its acting.

    One thing's for sure: this movie is going to be talked about and debated in a more serious manner than the typical CBM. And that's a good thing.
    Joker is clearly the hook here. It's why it's a Joker movie. Comic book movies are hot right now, so he's being used to get people to see a sort of movie that a lot of the comic book crowd probably wouldn't see otherwise.

    It'll be interesting to see if that starts becoming a thing. Just throw a super hero into a movie that otherwise isn't really a super hero movie, just to get the comic book crowd's attention.

  10. #40
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    I feel like this will be the Joker version of Pengin: Pain and Prejudice

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Joker is clearly the hook here. It's why it's a Joker movie. Comic book movies are hot right now, so he's being used to get people to see a sort of movie that a lot of the comic book crowd probably wouldn't see otherwise.

    It'll be interesting to see if that starts becoming a thing. Just throw a super hero into a movie that otherwise isn't really a super hero movie, just to get the comic book crowd's attention.
    Look at what Sony is trying to do with their Spider-man universe. Morbius movie. Attempts at a Kraven, Black Cat and Silver Sable movie.

    Joker is going to make money. Soon after that the floodgates will be open to villain origin movies. There was talks of a Doctor Doom movie. Black Adam is going to happen. Trench horror movie from the Aquaman film.

    Not a big fan of this but it's going to happen until all these movies start bombing.

  12. #42
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    Look at what Sony is trying to do with their Spider-man universe. Morbius movie. Attempts at a Kraven, Black Cat and Silver Sable movie.

    Joker is going to make money. Soon after that the floodgates will be open to villain origin movies. There was talks of a Doctor Doom movie. Black Adam is going to happen. Trench horror movie from the Aquaman film.

    Not a big fan of this but it's going to happen until all these movies start bombing.
    I think the key to these sort of movies is that they have to be cheap. Joker only had a 55 mill budget... so it shouldn't take that much to earn a profit. If they can keep costs low, they can pump out movies like this without too much difficulty.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    Look at what Sony is trying to do with their Spider-man universe. Morbius movie. Attempts at a Kraven, Black Cat and Silver Sable movie.

    Joker is going to make money. Soon after that the floodgates will be open to villain origin movies. There was talks of a Doctor Doom movie. Black Adam is going to happen. Trench horror movie from the Aquaman film.

    Not a big fan of this but it's going to happen until all these movies start bombing.
    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think the key to these sort of movies is that they have to be cheap. Joker only had a 55 mill budget... so it shouldn't take that much to earn a profit. If they can keep costs low, they can pump out movies like this without too much difficulty.

    I don't have a single problem with any of this. If the story is good, and the director has a good vision, then let them tell the stories they want to tell with the characters even if it focuses on the villain or it's not slavishly adhering to the comics. I don't want feature films to rehash what I've already read anyway.

    In particular, Joker has already had a zillion different interpretations, so there really isn't a definitive take in the comics, just the latest one.

    Early reactions are so positive that I'm already excited to see this. With Aquaman, Shazam, and now Joker, I'm loving the variety that DC is giving us!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Well, Joker isn't really a "superhero movie."

    It's not even a "supervillain movie."


    And I wouldn't have it any other way.

    I'm not really into movies that are depressing or nihilistic or even pessimistic, but for the character of the Joker, it's got me interested in seeing a type of movie that I wouldn't ordinarily see. So, maybe that makes me the opposite of some here.

    A hard-R, more mature approach to comic book movies is something I could really get into -- every once in awhile.

    I think it's good for the future of CBMs to show the full breadth of what comics are, could be, and should be.

    There will be some who dismiss it outright as not being appropriate for a CBM, and there will be others who love it just because it upends expectations no matter how good it actually is.

    I'm not into either knee-jerk repsonse. I'm into CBMs that are quality movies, and from the reactions to Joaquin Phoenix's performance, this looks to be just that. If he is really as good as the early critics are saying, I do hope he gets an Oscar nomination. If Anthony Hopkins could win for Hannibal Lechter, why not?

    If Joker lives up to this early hype, and we'll know in about a month, then this could help change the dismissive view that Academy members often have toward Comic Book Movies.

    I'm excited that a CBM is being praised for its acting.

    One thing's for sure: this movie is going to be talked about and debated in a more serious manner than the typical CBM. And that's a good thing.
    I’m very pleased Joker is on its way to be a hit.

  15. #45
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    The funny thing about the whole comic book movie scene is that while the Marvel films have been far more successful I've had more of an interest in discussing the DC movies overall. They've at least tried to do different things (sometimes unsuccessfully) as opposed the "Marvel formula" we've seen time and time again.

    Does anybody else feel this way?

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