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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    I don't see the 3 Marvel characters you mentioned being compelling enough to do a Joker-like dark, R-rated take. Also, none are as well known to the mass audience enough for them to care.
    Dr. Doom, Kingpin, Magneto.... Moving right along. Two of them had movies in various forms of production. Beside Marvel is basically king of the antihero characters so Moon Knight, Namor, Hulk, Electra Punisher, Deadpool, Wolverine, Venom, Ghost Rider, Blade, etc when they walk the darker line it is the same effect as sympathetic "true" villain project.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-08-2019 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #122
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    wasn't "X-Men: First Class" basically a Magneto origin movie that got turned into another X-team film? that one turned out pretty good. I thought Fassbender and MacAvoy both did great work... the fact that the sequels got progressively less interesting certainly didn't help, though!

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Dr. Doom, Kingpin, Magneto.... Moving right along. Two of them had movies in various forms of production.
    I don't think any of these characters could hold a movie without playing against the superheroes they normally do. I suppose you could do a Kingpin crime movie, but why? I don't see that movie being unique enough to get the same standing ovations that Joker did.

    Joker as a character just has a unique appeal that Doom, Kingpin, and Magneto never had. I'm not saying they're bad characters, but just not compelling enough to star in their own movie.

    I don't know what's been "in development," but I don't think we'll really ever see those movies.

  4. #124
    BANNED Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    I can see a Ra's Al Ghul eco-terrorist movie. I can also see a Riddler-as-terrorist movie where his riddles cause massive human casualties if they are not solved correctly by the government agents (not Batman) pursuing him.

    However, Penguin could be tricky. If they just go with the ugly misfit shunned by society causing him to turn evil, then you're just rehashing Batman Returns even if you play it more seriously. It might also have too many similarities to this Joker movie.

    I don't see the 3 Marvel characters you mentioned being compelling enough to do a Joker-like dark, R-rated take. Also, none are as well known to the mass audience enough for them to care.
    You think Ras and riddler are more compelling characters then Dr Doom? Black Cat I get. I've never saw her as anything more then Spidermans knock off catwoman.

    Joker is a homicidal maniac who bascialy Choas incarnate. I dont see anything about him that's more compelling then Dr Doom innately. Doom as a character has way more range with what you can do with him. It would depend on the writer but I mean this Joker movie should say Loosely based on the DC character. So really if your gonna change this much about a character alot of villians could be good with good team making the film. But someone like Magneto has way more standalone potential then Joker on paper. I mean Black Adam has more potential then Joker. But this film seems to have a story it wants to tell and it looks good. But yea this isnt really a Joker story. It's a story that has some Joker themed elements. If that's the standard then anyone villian who's not condiment king or Stilt man could make a compelling story with a good team working on it


    Edit: for the record just wanna say I think Joker looks good and ima see it opening a weekend. So yea I'm not knocking this movie at all and I hope we get more elseworld creativity over continuity story telling. I love the MCU but it would be nice to also get some stuff that not part of a Filmverse.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 09-08-2019 at 05:42 PM.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    You think Ras and riddler are more compelling characters then Dr Doom? Black Cat I get. I've never saw her as anything more then Spidermans knock off catwoman.
    In comic books, I agree that Doctor Doom, Magneto, and Kingpin are better arch enemies than Ra's or Riddler, but that's not what I'm talking about.

    I'm talking about doing a villain-centric, dark-R rated take without any comicbooky stuff like the Joker movie. Just the villain without the hero.

    I see Ra's and Riddler being able to translate to that and be compelling for the mass audience more easily than Dr. Doom or the others could.

    Just the name "Doctor Doom" would be seen as a little too on-the-nose and goofy for an R-rated take I would think.

  6. #126
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    I don't think any of these characters could hold a movie without playing against the superheroes they normally do. I suppose you could do a Kingpin crime movie, but why? I don't see that movie being unique enough to get the same standing ovations that Joker did.

    Joker as a character just has a unique appeal that Doom, Kingpin, and Magneto never had. I'm not saying they're bad characters, but just not compelling enough to star in their own movie.

    I don't know what's been "in development," but I don't think we'll really ever see those movies.
    A Magneto solo movie was going to made but Wolverine Origins bombed, And they turned the Magneto movie into X-men first class. A Dr. Doom movie was going to be made and FF bombed. Which made the project get stuck in production in hell. Disney buying Fox put the final in the coffin which put the project down. So yes we won't be seeing those projects

    Obviously I disagree but that is fine I think Joker is something unique but he is far from the only villain that could do something like that, Daredevil season 1 Kingpin was compelling I don't see why a movie version of that wouldn't have work. I don't see why MCU Killmonger movie wouldn't work, I don't see why a Thanos movie wouldn't have worked.

    Okay I see what you are talking about now. strip down realistic take on villain but I don't see the point in using a comic book character to do that.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-08-2019 at 02:20 PM. Reason: I mean I guess okay

  7. #127
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    A Magneto solo movie was going to made but Wolverine Origins bombed, And they turned the Magneto movie into X-men first class. A Dr. Doom movie was going to be made and FF bombed. Which made the project get stuck in production in hell. Disney buying Fox put the final in the coffin which put the project down. So yes we won't be seeing those projects

    Obviously I disagree but that is fine I think Joker is something unique but he is far from the only villain that could do something like that, Daredevil season 1 Kingpin was compelling I don't see why a movie version of that wouldn't have work. I don't see why MCU Killmonger movie wouldn't work, I don't see why a Thanos movie wouldn't have worked.

    Okay I see what you are talking about now. strip down realistic take on villain but I don't see the point in using a comic book character to do that.
    The only character from Marvel I could see it go fully down the rabbit hole with Punisher with a very twisted realistic take of a man's descent into madness after losing his family. I'm talking no glorification he is the bad guy just a bad guy with a tragic past when is now being hunted by the law enforcement he use to work for for his sadistic crimes.

  8. #128
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    The only character from Marvel I could see it go fully down the rabbit hole with Punisher with a very twisted realistic take of a man's descent into madness after losing his family. I'm talking no glorification he is the bad guy just a bad guy with a tragic past when is now being hunted by the law enforcement he use to work for for his sadistic crimes.
    I basically agree Punisher is basically superhero version of Dexter at times they play up the noble side but Punisher could easily be straight up serial killer movie.

    Anyways back to real topic Joker is tracking for 100 million dollar opening which is impressive for a 55 million dollar budget.

  9. #129
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    When I think of solo super villain movie characters, I think of guys like Joker, Doom, Magneto, and Luthor.

    Those guys have all had solo comics and carried big arcs before.

    I don't see the problem.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  10. #130
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    so this movie may be based of the killing joke. Please where is my demon in bottle iron man 3 story? that comics could have some oscar material like this one

    oh deary, merit when the content of the movie does enough to deserve it, formulaic generic paint by number shallow movies like mcu movies are not deserving of oscars. Joker has declared itself as the answer to those movies. It looks like it is going to prove it. that is merit.
    Out of curiosity, have you read Batman: The Killing Joke?

  11. #131
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    As for this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    ...

    Why am I more optimistic about joker? because it is not a formulaic childish superhero movie , I have endured with nearly 23 mcu movies.


    ...
    It is incredibly odd to see someone try to frame Joker as not "Formulaic" when every single frame we have seen so far points to that the film is going to be a textbook formulaic "Seventies Character Study..." film.

  12. #132
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    As for this...



    It is incredibly odd to see someone try to frame Joker as not "Formulaic" when every single frame we have seen so far points to that the film is going to be a textbook formulaic "Seventies Character Study..." film.
    The King Of Comedy is literally the formula for the Joker movie. They even got De Niro to play the Jerry Lewis character.

  13. #133
    Incredible Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    As for this...



    It is incredibly odd to see someone try to frame Joker as not "Formulaic" when every single frame we have seen so far points to that the film is going to be a textbook formulaic "Seventies Character Study..." film.
    I think this is just how some of you MCU fans want to see the movie because that is how mcu does it. formulaic is what disney does. when you are formulaic you go for the easiest options, the common trope, the most generic writing, your obvious comfort zone which for comic movies now is to have massive cgi battles. that is formulaic, also how unnecessarily kid friendly and dumbed down are your movies? that is formulaic too. I don't see it with the joker from that I have seen so far? if i am being honest i don't see this either with many comic movies after batman and robin because the comic book formulaic stigma was there and hunted superhero movies especially DC.

    I understood why Nolan took the approach he did with batman, I understand the vision Snyder had for the DCEU although the execution was poor. I understood what Singer did to have X-Men 1 start like another scene from Schindler's list. all these was to make comic movies less silly, light, too action packed and goofy. that is is what formulaic means. it was Disney mcu that brought that formulaic style back. Joker is not part of that equation as the movie factually does not look like your typical comic movie of 2019. FFH, Dark phoenix, captian marvel, shazam and endgame.


    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    wasn't "X-Men: First Class" basically a Magneto origin movie that got turned into another X-team film? that one turned out pretty good. I thought Fassbender and MacAvoy both did great work... the fact that the sequels got progressively less interesting certainly didn't help, though!
    There was this believe that no one will ever top Stewart and Mckellen but Fassbender and McAvoy were good successors. first class is saved mostly by the script of the movie and the top notch acting but the story depth too. the cold war, russia/usa nuclear issues and the civil rights themes were not dumbed down in the movie unlike black panther themes that are hardly there but many see first class as a magneto origins movie because it is one. Fassbender performance alone could have earned him a best supporting nomination, this is the movie we see magneto at his most balanced unlike mckellen , who we see mostly as cynical but first class is definitely a character study movie of Magneto. Joker seem to be one but will push more limits as R rated and will touch on some major themes that won't be just an afterthought. that is why black panther is a formulaic movie and this joker movie would mean more as a Oscar contender.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 09-08-2019 at 09:57 PM.

  14. #134
    Incredible Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Out of curiosity, have you read Batman: The Killing Joke?
    Read it years ago, saw the movie. On the surface, it comes of as a simple story but when you break it down there is more to the story especially from commission Gordon's perspective that was underrated because people only focused on Barbra getting shot.

    You know what I like about it? its a movie I know DC can at least adapt at some point again down the line maybe with Batman in it even with the story content that is not easy. my xmen marvel comic stories have gone down the drain now disney got the rights to xmen. Let me just enjoy the DC movies I know are still from DC comics. I don't have that with marvel anymore as all I see are disney stories.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 09-08-2019 at 10:01 PM.

  15. #135
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I think this is just how some of you MCU fans want to see the movie because that is how mcu does it.

    ...
    Let's make this easy, and take "Thinking..." out of the equation entirely.

    Just how much of Phillips being interviewed about the film have you come across?

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