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  1. #181
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Well, a reviewer named David Edelstein just compared the Joker to the Nazis.
    That's the guy at Indiewire, right?

    While he has a right his point of view, his review honestly looked like he wrote it before he ever saw the film and didn't change a word once he had.

  2. #182
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    I expected the movie to actually to get much better reviews than what I've read so far given the early reaction.

    Oh well, I'll wait and see what the final tomatometer turns out to be before I go and see this.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  3. #183
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I expected the movie to actually to get much better reviews than what I've read so far given the early reaction.

    Oh well, I'll wait and see what the final tomatometer turns out to be before I go and see this.
    Well, let's get real for a minute.

    Before they were made, there was not a film like Taxi Driver or The King Of Comedy. Never mind a film that the director of those films went into the film intending to make a film like them.

    You can have the greatest film in that mold that will over be made with a brilliant performance, and it will still ultimately be what it is.

    While a film made this year was made in the mold the Taxi Driver and The King Of Comedy(and let's face it, lifts pretty directly from The King Of Comedy), I don't see a film being made forty years from now that will be similarly based on Joker.

    I don't doubt that it will be great for what it is and have some brilliant performances, but no one who reviews films is going to miss that this will essentially be the best hitter on the tee ball team.

    Great, but still great in a very strict context.

  4. #184
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Well, a reviewer named David Edelstein just compared the Joker to the Nazis.
    While he wasn't the guy at Indiewire, it is worth taking note of that this is seeming who he turns out to be...

    - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...i-joke-1164489

    NPR's 'Fresh Air' Parts Ways With David Edelstein After 'Last Tango' Rape Scene Joke

  5. #185
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Two big attacks on the film at once.

    Kwing rants about the first attack in this video.

    Warning spoilers in video! You have been warned!



  6. #186
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Second attack.

    People are also saying it is not even a joker movie. Campea talks about it here but doesn't even talk about that part and talks about is it a really a comic movie if it has nothing from the comic?


  7. #187
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    David Edelstein's full review is here and the quote in question;

    As Hannah Arendt saw banality in the supposed evil of the Nazi Adolf Eichmann, I see in Joker an attempt to elevate nerdy revenge to the plane of myth. That’s scary on a lot of different levels.
    The funny thing is, I reread this statement again while writing this post and I thought maybe he actually had a point, that the Joker is just an ordinary dude and who performs evil acts and is not necessarily evil himself...But then I realized that his statement had nothing to do with Hannah Arendt or her philosophy. His actual point is "I see in Joker an attempt to elevate nerdy revenge to the plane of myth". You can tell that those statements aren't logically bound to one another simply by replacing the first statement with something else entirely; "As Spinoza saw god in nature, I see in Joker an attempt to elevate nerdy revenge to the plane of myth".

    So I was actually wrong when I said Edelstein compared the Joker to the Nazis , rather, he just randomly shouted out "Nazi!" in his article. Maybe Edelstein just has Nazis on the brain or he just wanted to be clever (like with what I did with Spinoza), but I can't help but suspect that he just wanted to have 'Nazi' and 'Joker' in the same sentence, because his follow up sentence is "That’s scary on a lot of different levels". His thesis, that the joker elevates nerdy revenge fantasies, isn't really scary by itself, but when you say this statement after you've just talked about Nazis and the banality of evil...

    So yeah, the statement is pretty egregious and it should be noted that the above quote is used in the blurb to summarize his review of Joker on RT.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 09-12-2019 at 11:23 AM.
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  8. #188
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Imagine the surprise that an intentionally controversial movie has *gasp* controversy!

    Seriously, is this a surprise to anyone really? The initial reactions to Joker were a lot more positive than I expected because the film certainly was billed as a cautionary tale and being able to do something different the mainstream won't or can't (which Todd himself recently admitted was the intention). While films like that if very well made will be acclaimed as such, often times there is controversy regarding whether or not they highlighted the topical issue well or not (and most of said topical issues have varying stances and views) or whether or not highlighting it was a good thing in the first place.

    For all the backhanded bragging that Joker was going to be a bold film, why are some bothered by people having negative opinions? Film is also an art, isn't it? It's been treated like one.

    (Also funny how some like to say they don't care about RT but are bothered by the score dropping. Why don't we all just admit we like bragging about the stats and stop the pretending?)

  9. #189
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Second attack.

    People are also saying it is not even a joker movie. Campea talks about it here but doesn't even talk about that part and talks about is it a really a comic movie if it has nothing from the comic?

    Didnt watch the video but I dont think its attacking the movie to say it's not really a Joker movie. Now if people then knock the movie for that then its unfair and attacking it. I am 100% expecting to go watch a movie where they kinda changed a couple things so they could call it Joker and get eyeballs on it. But that doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the movie. Looking at all the people involved I'm pretty sure ima enjoy this movie, even if it's only inspired by Joker in the slightest of ways. Doesnt matter the movie looks good to me and I'll be there opening weekend, convinced my Fiance to go with me.

  10. #190
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Imagine the surprise that an intentionally controversial movie has *gasp* controversy!

    Seriously, is this a surprise to anyone really? The initial reactions to Joker were a lot more positive than I expected because the film certainly was billed as a cautionary tale and being able to do something different the mainstream won't or can't (which Todd himself recently admitted was the intention). While films like that if very well made will be acclaimed as such, often times there is controversy regarding whether or not they highlighted the topical issue well or not (and most of said topical issues have varying stances and views) or whether or not highlighting it was a good thing in the first place.

    For all the backhanded bragging that Joker was going to be a bold film, why are some bothered by people having negative opinions? Film is also an art, isn't it? It's been treated like one.

    (Also funny how some like to say they don't care about RT but are bothered by the score dropping. Why don't we all just admit we like bragging about the stats and stop the pretending?)
    One guy's take...

    I feel like it's incorrect to frame it as "Bothered By People Having Negative Opinions?'

    On a website called Bloody Disgusting, I read a pretty well thought out review that addressed the film and the bigger picture that the film will exist in. Fair, but it pointed out the negatives where the reviewer believed them to be.

    That is an entirely different thing than reviews that feel entirely telegraphed. Reviews that feel like every word was a foregone conclusion no matter what the film wound up being.

    I can't see not having a negative reaction to that sort of thing.

  11. #191
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    It was getting a 77% when I checked tonight. Wonder where it will end up. The standing ovation, 10/10 reviews made me think this would be a shoe-in for 90%+.
    78% now. Dora and the lost city has a better RT score right now!

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    One guy's take...

    I feel like it's incorrect to frame it as "Bothered By People Having Negative Opinions?'

    On a website called Bloody Disgusting, I read a pretty well thought out review that addressed the film and the bigger picture that the film will exist in. Fair, but it pointed out the negatives where the reviewer believed them to be.

    That is an entirely different thing than reviews that feel entirely telegraphed. Reviews that feel like every word was a foregone conclusion no matter what the film wound up being.

    I can't see not having a negative reaction to that sort of thing.
    TheRinger has a pretty pointed review as well. Basically: Phoenix is amazing and the performance he gives is epic. The movie itself isn't all that daring and too derivative.

    As less artsy reviews come out this appears to have been called "Joker" as a means to get the movie made. Not because it's actually the Joker or at all relevant to the character. It's King of Comedy with a few gotham references and face paint. Still....sounds like Phoenix was in all his glory.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    TheRinger has a pretty pointed review as well. Basically: Phoenix is amazing and the performance he gives is epic. The movie itself isn't all that daring and too derivative.

    As less artsy reviews come out this appears to have been called "Joker" as a means to get the movie made. Not because it's actually the Joker or at all relevant to the character. It's King of Comedy with a few gotham references and face paint. Still....sounds like Phoenix was in all his glory.
    Basically this.

    I suspect the movie is going to be buoyed almost entirely by Phoenix's performance which has been hailed as great.

    That aside, it'll probably be a lot of what we expect to happen (i.e a down on his luck man with mental issues that society has treated unfairly and eventually decides to take out some assholes).
    Last edited by Username taken; 09-12-2019 at 07:50 AM.
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    TheRinger has a pretty pointed review as well. Basically: Phoenix is amazing and the performance he gives is epic. The movie itself isn't all that daring and too derivative.

    As less artsy reviews come out this appears to have been called "Joker" as a means to get the movie made. Not because it's actually the Joker or at all relevant to the character. It's King of Comedy with a few gotham references and face paint. Still....sounds like Phoenix was in all his glory.
    This.

    If it didnt have Phoenix it'd probably sink. It also doesn't help that everyones kind of aware of the obvious themes of the movie. 80% of social media posts I see in telation to it make some snarky reference to "SOCIETY" .

  15. #195
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Second attack.

    People are also saying it is not even a joker movie. Campea talks about it here but doesn't even talk about that part and talks about is it a really a comic movie if it has nothing from the comic?
    What defines a comic book movie? I remember in 2000 with X-Men 1, some people did not want to call it a comic film because the movie was not colorful, they wore no costumes, the movie started with a grounded take of nazi Germany and the rest of the film was shot as a drama with the action kept to a minimum. Somehow regardless of all those complaints, the movie worked and the rest they say is history.

    2019, This is a forced situation, comic stories have covered different genres properly. We should not be asking if it is a comic film. How did Frank Miller or Chris Claremont get so famous as comic writers? They turned the genre upside down. This reviews are not reviews. People wonder why critics no longer have credibility. Joker is the final nail in exposing this critics for the frauds they have become.

    I do think they are scared. For months now, the media has been out to derail this film. I think its Avengers Endgame and Shazam paranoia. In the DC kingdom, I think fans are eyes are going to open even further as it is getting more clear these critics will only embrace a DC movie if they copycat MCU movies. Chris Nolan was lucky, I don't think any of his Batman movies would survived today, the cracks were already there when the media were shunning TDKR for Avengers. 6 years later, I never thought it would get this far how people want to change DC so much or pretend comic movies can't go beyond childish entertainment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Two big attacks on the film at once.

    Kwing rants about the first attack in this video.

    Warning spoilers in video! You have been warned!

    Reminds me of the EW review that was no review. People who claim to be professional critics can't review a movie anymore because of the darker themes?SERIOUSLY? its not like they did not get the warning the movie is rated R, strong R.

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