Page 7 of 32 FirstFirst ... 3456789101117 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 480
  1. #91
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Calling an authoritarian regime an authoritarian regime is not defamation. The Chinese audience broadly speaking likes films the emphasis spectacle over characterization and plot and that's fine, but I prefer to have my films with some substance to them.
    then there's the small detail that the Chinese government has very, VERY rarely ever even TRIED to truly represent the wishes and interests of the Chinese peoples as a whole. I can certainly respect China for the thousands of years of art, music, philosophy, technological innovation, military theory, and lots of other cool things... but, I can't say that the Chinese government has ever really been... eh.... all that great. it's usually a case of the 'lesser evil' versus the 'greater evil'.

    you can have a guy like Joseph Stillwell who had a sincere respect for the ordinary Chinese citizen... and a burning hatred for the land owners, upper class, high ranking military officers, and government officials.

    besides, it's easier to appreciate a good looking spectacle if you can't discern immediately just how poor the characterization and dialogue are! it's not like most kung fu movies have great acting and characterization in it... but they're fun all the same. it's a normal part of the cultural exchange IMO.

    I can take or leave substance... sometimes I feel like it needs to be there... and other times, I don't really care. I don't watch "Piranha 3d" or "Megashark vs Giant Octopus" getting my hopes up for deep thought. when "Prometheus" turned out to be an idiotic and boring train-wreck of a film when "Alien" was a legit sci-fi horror classic THEN I get irritated.

  2. #92
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,780

    Default

    Here's my thing... even if The Joker is an incel who is made violent because he's a mediocre white male who can't catch a break in love or his career, does that mean it's glorifying that? Obviously I haven't seen the movie, but traditionally Joker is the bad guy. People shouldn't assume that because the movie is named after him that the filmmakers are condoning his behavior.

  3. #93
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    9,448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    Here's my thing... even if The Joker is an incel who is made violent because he's a mediocre white male who can't catch a break in love or his career, does that mean it's glorifying that? Obviously I haven't seen the movie, but traditionally Joker is the bad guy. People shouldn't assume that because the movie is named after him that the filmmakers are condoning his behavior.
    Oy we had some nonsense like this with the Punisher Netflix show. Tons of reviews that had nothing to do with the shows quality. And were just upset about a TV show celebrating a gun violence after some mass shooting. It's silly and we pick and choose what we get outraged by. Dave Chappeles situation with his new stand up scares me. I know it's just a vocal minority who outraged by it but the coverage makes us think that's how people really feel. Meanwhile I laughed my ass off even at the uncomfortable pedophile jokes. I can differentiate between a joke and something awful.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 09-06-2019 at 12:19 AM.

  4. #94
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    Here's my thing... even if The Joker is an incel who is made violent because he's a mediocre white male who can't catch a break in love or his career, does that mean it's glorifying that? Obviously I haven't seen the movie, but traditionally Joker is the bad guy. People shouldn't assume that because the movie is named after him that the filmmakers are condoning his behavior.
    I'm going to just take a minute to point out something that I see what seems like a lot of folks set aside when they are trying to make this "Incel's Bad News Bears" case when it comes to this film.

    Seriously take a minute. Think about the very first time you even heard the term "Incel". Once you have, think about the year you heard someone actually refer to themselves as one or a part of what may or may not be that movement.

    Once you've got that year, let's take a minute and talk about what year that was versus the period that Joker is set in.

    If you are up to speed on the film at all, you would be aware that the film is set in the year 1981. While I know a lot of folks might no be old enough to remember the lay of the land back then, you would be aware that government and it's role in making it more difficult for the mentally ill to be treated. See a quote from this article...

    - https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ron...ental_illness/

    Finally, the 1980s witnessed increasing episodes of violence, including homicides, committed by mentally ill individuals who were not receiving treatment. The decade began ominously with three high-profile shootings between March 1980 and March 1981. Former congressman Allard Lowenstein was killed by Dennis Sweeney, John Lennon was killed by Mark David Chapman, and President Ronald Reagan was shot by John Hinckley. All three perpetrators had untreated schizophrenia. Sweeney, for example, believed that Lowenstein, his former mentor, had implanted a transmitter in his teeth through which he was sending harassing voices.
    While I don't have any "Inside Baseball" knowledge when it comes to the film, I tend to doubt that the above is simple coincidence.

    I would not be one bit surprised if the mental health apparatus that we have seen in the trailers fails the man who will become "Joker" in catastrophic fashion.


    In addition to that, I haven't seen many folks bring up Phillips talking about empathy in interviews since the most recent screening. Gimme a minute here to point something out about that.

    If it is a film that you have seen, take a minute and seriously go over the details of the film First Blood in your head. While "Respect Military Service..." is a widely accepted "Gimme" in the here and now, think about how former service member John Rambo is treated in the 1982(worth making not of the year there) film.

    John's service is not given that sort of respect once they are aware of it(never mind that John has been awarded the Medal Of Honor). Quite the opposite. No attempt is made to even entertain that John might have been acting in self-defense, and that the situation should be resolved a way other than violence.

    If I was going to guess, I would guess that the US being a place with less empathy at the time is also going to play in.



    What feels like folks trying to ignore that possibility to jam the film into a "Current Time Period"/"Incel"/"Whatever" mold, is sort of disconcerting. Feel like they are telegraphing the film being what they want it to be without even allowing for the possibility that it will exist in a largely different context.

  5. #95
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    Here's my thing... even if The Joker is an incel who is made violent because he's a mediocre white male who can't catch a break in love or his career, does that mean it's glorifying that? Obviously I haven't seen the movie, but traditionally Joker is the bad guy. People shouldn't assume that because the movie is named after him that the filmmakers are condoning his behavior.
    On that particular point...

    - https://www.empireonline.com/movies/reviews/joker/

    This could, particularly in the current climate, be viewed as a lament for outsiders and the ignored. That’s too simple and Joker does anything but deliver you easy answers. It’s a sad, chaotic, slow-burn study of someone who isn’t visible; who doesn’t even exist to the world around them. But your empathy, sympathy even, isn’t guaranteed, and it begins to dissolve as Arthur somehow moves even further to the edges.

  6. #96
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Running Springs, California
    Posts
    9,336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    What feels like folks trying to ignore that possibility to jam the film into a "Current Time Period"/"Incel"/"Whatever" mold, is sort of disconcerting. Feel like they are telegraphing the film being what they want it to be without even allowing for the possibility that it will exist in a largely different context.
    The problem is that most modern period films have these weird "anachronisms" which the viewing audience seems to just kind of accept. Attitudes, relationships, portrayals of institutions, and so on. Hollywood distorts their history, either deliberately or out of apathy/ignorance. Also, more importantly, those viewing a film are going to view it through the lens of today regardless. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

    In 1981 the Joker character in this movie would have been termed a loser, a nobody. But today he could be termed as an incel. Which merely reflects a modern cultural drive to make a lot more lifestyle choices acceptable. The fact that "incel" has all this baggage is also cultural, though. Hard to separate one's self and view a period film without that modern overlay.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 09-06-2019 at 10:38 AM.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  7. #97
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Joker wins the Golden Lion award

    . In a statement, Phillips thanked Warner Bros. and DC "for stepping out of their comfort zone and taking such a bold swing on me and this movie" during his acceptance speech for the award. He went on to praise Phoenix, who joined him on-stage, saying (via Variety):

    https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/ve...rs-1202171696/

  8. #98
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,322

    Default

    Honestly I feel like the joker has been an incel fantasy character for a few decades now. This fantasy of mass murdering innocents and not facing consequences seems like an incel thing. I mean I know that's been the character before the term came about but still.

    This movie seems to be making the character sympathetic or maybe just misunderstood not just a maniac blowing up hospitals and cackling.

  9. #99
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    This movie seems to be making the character sympathetic or maybe just misunderstood not just a maniac blowing up hospitals and cackling.

    And that is why it is called a character study movie. it is supposed to make you think like that.

  10. #100
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    And that is why it is called a character study movie. it is supposed to make you think like that.
    I get that at the same time the movie doesn't seem excessively violent or hateful. But I'll have to see it to really judge.

  11. #101
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    I get that at the same time the movie doesn't seem excessively violent or hateful. But I'll have to see it to really judge.
    We would have to wait to see to judge but so far, it is feeling very much like Logan and that is a good sign.

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Thread is already starting to devolve into a repetitive tone I've been seeing way too much of all over CBR forums as of late.

    Anyway, a few things I'd like to add:

    - If you see anyone talking about this movie being their "Black Panther" and how it helped them get over a "Veronica" and making a connection to "oppressed gamers", understand that it's all a meme. It's meant to be mocking gamer guys who lack social skills and complain about being oppressed by the media because they are (sometimes wrongfully) blamed for a lot of societal problems, like bigotry or gun violence. It's also meant to be mocking incels.

    - Speaking of incels, they are the ones that named themselves that. Incels are guys that feel because of their physical unattractiveness, financial status or social capabilities they are denied by society from having sex with women, and believe women and sex are things they should be entitled to because they believe they are nice gentlemen, but women are dumb and go for "Chads" physically attractive men that do not respect women and treat them badly (ha, the irony). Furthermore, incels are notably prone to violence and have been inspired by committing acts of violence before. Look no further than Elliot Rodger, the first incel the world was really exposed to when he shot and killed multiple women because they were good looking but refused to give him any attention. His manifesto is the backbone of incel culture. There was also a similar incel happening months ago.

    - From what I have read from some spoiler reviews and the alleged leaked script, Joker does contain elements that can be seen as being related to or even a commentary on incel culture (which I wouldn't spoil). In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this was done on purpose, which is why I don't understand why some people are upset or offended that reviewers are pointing this out. This is a cautionary tale, isn't it? That's what it's supposed to do: shed light on people like this because they exist. Maybe the film is making a mistake by making you feel sympathetic towards Arthur, but I think anyone whose moral compass is intact should understand that while Arthur may be a victim to an ignorant society and abusive treatment, he is continuing a cycle or abusive and violence by doing what he does. If you can see that, then the movie has done its job. However it should also be pointed out that the last thing a movie wants to do is victim-blame, which is what some reviewers are afraid the film does by making Arthur sympathetic. But again, this kind of controversy is expected for a film trying to say bold things like these, so I don't understand why some people are upset by it.

    With all that being said, it seems that by large Joker is a success. It's tracking well at the box office, has critical acclaim, and is bound to do well at the awards circuit. There's nothing to be afraid of. DC has a win on their hands here.

  13. #103
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Thread is already starting to devolve into a repetitive tone I've been seeing way too much of all over CBR forums as of late.

    Anyway, a few things I'd like to add:

    - If you see anyone talking about this movie being their "Black Panther" and how it helped them get over a "Veronica" and making a connection to "oppressed gamers", understand that it's all a meme. It's meant to be mocking gamer guys who lack social skills and complain about being oppressed by the media because they are (sometimes wrongfully) blamed for a lot of societal problems, like bigotry or gun violence. It's also meant to be mocking incels.

    - Speaking of incels, they are the ones that named themselves that. Incels are guys that feel because of their physical unattractiveness, financial status or social capabilities they are denied by society from having sex with women, and believe women and sex are things they should be entitled to because they believe they are nice gentlemen, but women are dumb and go for "Chads" physically attractive men that do not respect women and treat them badly (ha, the irony). Furthermore, incels are notably prone to violence and have been inspired by committing acts of violence before. Look no further than Elliot Rodger, the first incel the world was really exposed to when he shot and killed multiple women because they were good looking but refused to give him any attention. His manifesto is the backbone of incel culture. There was also a similar incel happening months ago.

    - From what I have read from some spoiler reviews and the alleged leaked script, Joker does contain elements that can be seen as being related to or even a commentary on incel culture (which I wouldn't spoil). In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this was done on purpose, which is why I don't understand why some people are upset or offended that reviewers are pointing this out. This is a cautionary tale, isn't it? That's what it's supposed to do: shed light on people like this because they exist. Maybe the film is making a mistake by making you feel sympathetic towards Arthur, but I think anyone whose moral compass is intact should understand that while Arthur may be a victim to an ignorant society and abusive treatment, he is continuing a cycle or abusive and violence by doing what he does. If you can see that, then the movie has done its job. However it should also be pointed out that the last thing a movie wants to do is victim-blame, which is what some reviewers are afraid the film does by making Arthur sympathetic. But again, this kind of controversy is expected for a film trying to say bold things like these, so I don't understand why some people are upset by it.

    With all that being said, it seems that by large Joker is a success. It's tracking well at the box office, has critical acclaim, and is bound to do well at the awards circuit. There's nothing to be afraid of. DC has a win on their hands here.
    Everything in this post is true and insightful.

  14. #104
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Honestly I feel like the joker has been an incel fantasy character for a few decades now. This fantasy of mass murdering innocents and not facing consequences seems like an incel thing. I mean I know that's been the character before the term came about but still.

    This movie seems to be making the character sympathetic or maybe just misunderstood
    not just a maniac blowing up hospitals and cackling.
    To repeat, this is from someone who has actually seen the film...

    - https://www.empireonline.com/movies/reviews/joker/

    This could, particularly in the current climate, be viewed as a lament for outsiders and the ignored. That’s too simple and Joker does anything but deliver you easy answers. It’s a sad, chaotic, slow-burn study of someone who isn’t visible; who doesn’t even exist to the world around them. But your empathy, sympathy even, isn’t guaranteed, and it begins to dissolve as Arthur somehow moves even further to the edges.

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,398

    Default

    Joker won the top prize at the Venice Film Festival, the Golden Lion!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •