Joker's final trailer has just dropped

[Blind Wedjat]

Again, not surprised by this at all. Todd Phillips and co should have been smarter about the kind of movie they were making.

Imagine telling the families that suffered violence and death from an evil person that they're transparent for not wanting a movie that paints another evil person as a victim and a hero of their own story. Like, it's not just about them not liking it. It's an active measure to protect their community when nobody wants to do anything about gun control. They have to do something.

[Beaddle]

Again, not surprised by this at all. Todd Phillips and co should have been smarter about the kind of movie they were making.

Imagine telling the families that suffered violence and death from an evil person that they're transparent for not wanting a movie that paints another evil person as a victim and a hero of their own story. Like, it's not just about them not liking it. It's an active measure to protect their community when nobody wants to do anything about gun control. They have to do something.

It wasn't the aurora's family I was calling transparent, in fact I said I respected their decision and respect aurora cinema even more for choosing not to show the film, although there has never been any proven evidence, that shooter was a big joker fan?

the people i was calling too transparent are the people who are choosing to have a selective outage about the film because it does not fit into what they think should be the expectancy of comic films.

WB have done the best they can to prep us for the film

1. they made the movie R, meaning they know the audience.
2. They have told us what the character is
3. the movie goes under black label, its not even in the mainstream DCEU.
4. Now WB is answering the topic head on.

That should be enough for the movie to be judge soley on art without any fear of how it can incite violence. Joker is truly not that different from deadpool. how many people did deadpool incite to commit violence after the film? that crime rate is the same for the joker. I think the media overreacting about the movie, is potentially more harmful than the movie itself.

[numberthirty]

Again, not surprised by this at all. Todd Phillips and co should have been smarter about the kind of movie they were making.

Imagine telling the families that suffered violence and death from an evil person that they're transparent for not wanting a movie that paints another evil person as a victim and a hero of their own story. Like, it's not just about them not liking it. It's an active measure to protect their community when nobody wants to do anything about gun control. They have to do something.

Again, have you seen the film?

I could go back and post the review, but one that I've pointed out before seems to believe this is not exactly the case.

As for "Another Evil Person As A Victim"...

- Will this character be evil when the film starts?
- Will this character be a victim when the film starts?

If the answer to either of these questions is "I don't honestly know. I haven't seen the film.", then it feels like it is not as simple as that.

[Midvillian1322]

It wasn't the aurora's family I was calling transparent, in fact I said I respected their decision and respect aurora cinema even more for choosing not to show the film, although there has never been any proven evidence, that shooter was a big joker fan?

the people i was calling too transparent are the people who are choosing to have a selective outage about the film because it does not fit into what they think should be the expectancy of comic films.

WB have done the best they can to prep us for the film

1. they made the movie R, meaning they know the audience.
2. They have told us what the character is
3. the movie goes under black label, its not even in the mainstream DCEU.
4. Now WB is answering the topic head on.

That should be enough for the movie to be judge soley on art without any fear of how it can incite violence. Joker is truly not that different from deadpool. how many people did deadpool incite to commit violence after the film? that crime rate is the same for the joker. I think the media overreacting about the movie, is potentially more harmful than the movie itself.

While I think the outrage over Joker is silly and cant really comment till i see it. It is nothing like Deadpool. One movie is grounded and serious and the other is silly with maximum effort.

[Blind Wedjat]

Again, have you seen the film?

I could go back and post the review, but one that I've pointed out before seems to believe this is not exactly the case.

As for "Another Evil Person As A Victim"...

- Will this character be evil when the film starts?
- Will this character be a victim when the film starts?

If the answer to either of these questions is "I don't honestly know. I haven't seen the film.", then it feels like it is not as simple as that.

Do you understand what the phrase "hero in their own story" means? It means that a character believes what they're doing is right, regardless of whether or not what they're actually doing is morally correct (based on society's standards) or whether it will lead to a good outcome or not.

I don't need to have watched Joker to understand that the basic premise of the character is that he: has a mental illness from brain damage caused by his parents, blames society for all of his problems, is made fun of because of his issues, decides to kill people because of that, starts feeling alive and fulfilled because of the killing, and inspires people to kill also. These are things shown in the trailers and mentioned in interviews. Hell, just to put it out there, I've read the script leaks, plot leaks, read several spoiler reviews, and watched the leaked clips so I know what I'm talking about.

All of this happens while Arthur believes he's doing the right thing and it's what people deserve because is society is a messed up place. So yes, he is the hero of his own story. You know who else thought was the hero of his own story? Elliot Rodger. Why do you think the connection between this film and incels has been made? Because Arthur resembles people like Elliot Rodger: people that believed they had perceived a problem within society and have decided to rid society of said problem through violence. Rodger isn't the only one, and several murderers and serial killers have thought this exact same way.

So many people think the problem with Joker is the violence. It's only part of the problem (in the sense that the violence does not have the Hollywood sheen or sillyness films like John Wick and Deadpool have). It's the potentially dangerous message that lies beneath, which is that if you’re marginalized, lashing out violently at society will fulfill you and give you legendary status. That’s the thing that people find dangerous, because it has happened in the real world and in a community like Aurora and several American ones.

I'm not necessarily blaming the film for this (or for violence, because the real root of the problem is gun control). But none of this should surprise anyone giving the current state of America. Let's not forget that this happened to the Punisher series (twice) as well, so Joker isn't the first one to get this. And maybe Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix should have been smarter about the film they were making and how they answer questions like these (like not walking out of an interview for starters)>

[Colossus1980]

It's the potentially dangerous message that lies beneath, which is that if you’re marginalized, lashing out violently at society will fulfill you and give you legendary status. That’s the thing that people find dangerous, because it has happened in the real world and in a community like Aurora and several American ones.

Exactly. It's happening more and more often in America and it's frightening.

[Scott Taylor]

Indications are the entire point of making the film was to inspire that talking point.

Yah, seems like it. Which is disappointing since this is trying to be this generation's Taxi Driver. Travis Bickle is not a sympathetic character at all and no one like that ever should be one.

[numberthirty]

Do you understand what the phrase "hero in their own story" means? It means that a character believes what they're doing is right, regardless of whether or not what they're actually doing is morally correct (based on society's standards) or whether it will lead to a good outcome or not.

I don't need to have watched Joker to understand that the basic premise of the character is that he: has a mental illness from brain damage caused by his parents, blames society for all of his problems, is made fun of because of his issues, decides to kill people because of that, starts feeling alive and fulfilled because of the killing, and inspires people to kill also. These are things shown in the trailers and mentioned in interviews. Hell, just to put it out there, I've read the script leaks, plot leaks, read several spoiler reviews, and watched the leaked clips so I know what I'm talking about.

All of this happens while Arthur believes he's doing the right thing and it's what people deserve because is society is a messed up place. So yes, he is the hero of his own story. You know who else thought was the hero of his own story? Elliot Rodger. Why do you think the connection between this film and incels has been made? Because Arthur resembles people like Elliot Rodger: people that believed they had perceived a problem within society and have decided to rid society of said problem through violence. Rodger isn't the only one, and several murderers and serial killers have thought this exact same way.

So many people think the problem with Joker is the violence. It's only part of the problem (in the sense that the violence does not have the Hollywood sheen or sillyness films like John Wick and Deadpool have). It's the potentially dangerous message that lies beneath, which is that if you’re marginalized, lashing out violently at society will fulfill you and give you legendary status. That’s the thing that people find dangerous, because it has happened in the real world and in a community like Aurora and several American ones.

I'm not necessarily blaming the film for this (or for violence, because the real root of the problem is gun control). But none of this should surprise anyone giving the current state of America. Let's not forget that this happened to the Punisher series (twice) as well, so Joker isn't the first one to get this. And maybe Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix should have been smarter about the film they were making and how they answer questions like these (like not walking out of an interview for starters)>

Again, how certain are you that this is indeed the case?

You've said that you have not seen the film, and plenty of what I have read points to the exact opposite of what you are saying.

[numberthirty]

Do you understand what the phrase "hero in their own story" means? It means that a character believes what they're doing is right, regardless of whether or not what they're actually doing is morally correct (based on society's standards) or whether it will lead to a good outcome or not.

I don't need to have watched Joker to understand that the basic premise of the character is that he: has a mental illness from brain damage caused by his parents, blames society for all of his problems, is made fun of because of his issues, decides to kill people because of that, starts feeling alive and fulfilled because of the killing, and inspires people to kill also. These are things shown in the trailers and mentioned in interviews. Hell, just to put it out there, I've read the script leaks, plot leaks, read several spoiler reviews, and watched the leaked clips so I know what I'm talking about.

All of this happens while Arthur believes he's doing the right thing and it's what people deserve because is society is a messed up place. So yes, he is the hero of his own story. You know who else thought was the hero of his own story? Elliot Rodger. Why do you think the connection between this film and incels has been made? Because Arthur resembles people like Elliot Rodger: people that believed they had perceived a problem within society and have decided to rid society of said problem through violence. Rodger isn't the only one, and several murderers and serial killers have thought this exact same way.

So many people think the problem with Joker is the violence. It's only part of the problem (in the sense that the violence does not have the Hollywood sheen or sillyness films like John Wick and Deadpool have). It's the potentially dangerous message that lies beneath, which is that if you’re marginalized, lashing out violently at society will fulfill you and give you legendary status. That’s the thing that people find dangerous, because it has happened in the real world and in a community like Aurora and several American ones.

I'm not necessarily blaming the film for this (or for violence, because the real root of the problem is gun control). But none of this should surprise anyone giving the current state of America. Let's not forget that this happened to the Punisher series (twice) as well, so Joker isn't the first one to get this. And maybe Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix should have been smarter about the film they were making and how they answer questions like these (like not walking out of an interview for starters)>

One other thing about that...

Do you honestly believe that there is an exactly "Zero" percentage possibility that reviewers and folks in the news are trying to create that connection because they stand to profit from eyes on articles where they do so?

If not, what do you believe that percentage to actually be? How much of that could be based on trying to make a buck?

One of the fathers of a victim has said he believes there is no connection.

How many times have heard/seen him in the news?

[XPac]

Definately an interesting era we are living in. On one hand we had a comic book super hero film like BLack Panther, which had school principals literally bringing entire schools of children to see the movie. And on the other we have a movie like Joker, which has the military warning us that if you go to this movie, you might get shot.

We're definately getting opposite ends of the spectrum here.

[AJBopp]

Again, have you seen the film?

I'm genuinely curious what makes you think the film gets to decide things like you're responding to?

It's true that, based on what we've seen, I can't say for sure this character kills - or even attempts to kill - a single person. But c'mon.

Ultimately, the viewer will decide whether a psychotic mass murderer is a hero to be emulated or not, regardless of how any movie portrays that character. The more realistic or grounded that character is, the more likely that dangerous, unstable people will identify with the character. Unfortunately, there are far too many of that sort of person in our society, and our society has made it far too easy for these people to act on what they identify with in a movie like what we all expect this film to be like.

[numberthirty]

I'm genuinely curious what makes you think the film gets to decide things like you're responding to?

It's true that, based on what we've seen, I can't say for sure this character kills - or even attempts to kill - a single person. But c'mon.

Ultimately, the viewer will decide whether a psychotic mass murderer is a hero to be emulated or not, regardless of how any movie portrays that character. The more realistic or grounded that character is, the more likely that dangerous, unstable people will identify with the character. Unfortunately, there are far too many of that sort of person in our society, and our society has made it far too easy for these people to act on what they identify with in a movie like what we all expect this film to be like.

While I have been trying to avoid "Spoilers"...

(Obviously, Don't Read This If You Want To Go In Cold...)

spoilers:

What if one(or more) of those people is(are) killed in self defense?

end of spoilers

[AJBopp]

While I have been trying to avoid "Spoilers"...

(Obviously, Don't Read This If You Want To Go In Cold...)

spoilers:

What if one(or more) of those people is(are) killed in self defense?

end of spoilers

If that happens, and the character ends up in the state of mind we all expect him to, that would be the very worst case scenario. A sympathetic character that many of the most dangerously mentally ill people could identify with all the more.

[numberthirty]

If that happens, and the character ends up in the state of mind we all expect him to, that would be the very worst case scenario. A sympathetic character that many of the most dangerously mentally ill people could identify with all the more.

See, that is another thing that I don't currently believe is a given.

In the same way that what is in "Spoilers" seems to differ from what someone believes is the case, I came across a review(I'll link/quote it again if you'd like) that says rather plainly that your sympathy as the film goes on is anything but a given.

If that assessment is anywhere near true, I don't know that it will exactly be the "Worst Case Scenario" that you suggest.

Not that I can't see what you mean or flatly disagree. Just that what I have seen/read thus far seems to suggest that it may no be the case.

A shift from a sympathetic character to one who is more difficult to sympathize with(if not impossible to sympathize with...) would be another can of worms.

[numberthirty]

The review that I mentioned...

- https://www.empireonline.com/movies/reviews/joker/

This could, particularly in the current climate, be viewed as a lament for outsiders and the ignored. That’s too simple and Joker does anything but deliver you easy answers. It’s a sad, chaotic, slow-burn study of someone who isn’t visible; who doesn’t even exist to the world around them. But your empathy, sympathy even, isn’t guaranteed, and it begins to dissolve as Arthur somehow moves even further to the edges. This is, we mustn’t forget, the story of how a villain was made. But what writer/director Todd Phillips and co-writer Scott Silver (8 Mile, The Fighter) have written into life is the Joker as a character. What they and the film is interested in is the mental, moral, emotional, physical make-up of the man who became the Joker.