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  1. #1
    Always Rakzo
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    Default Batman/Superman #1 Discussion/Spoilers

    A new series featuring this classic team-up begins. I have mentioned this in the past but I wasn't particularly a fan of the last Batman/Superman series written by Greg Pak, not really because it was bad but because it was pretty inconsistent with ups and downs in quality. Now however, the series is handled by Joshua Williamson who does have a much more consistent track record and I'm happy to say that he doesn't disappoint.

    The story is centered around the danger of the Dark Multiverse and the Batman who Laughs and if I had a complaint that would be it since both are derivative and overused concepts by Scott Snyder and I wish they would have stayed away once that the Metal event concluded. That being said, Williamson implements them in a way that makes them more tolerable since he presents them as an excuse to showcase the interaction between Superman and Batman and thankfully he nails it.

    Williamson portrays both protagonists in a logical way based on the years they have known each other, they know how each other think, they know what their personalities are, but even better are the conversations between the two since all of their lines represent their own characters perfectly without being too blunt. Is good character work.

    The issue also ends in a solid cliffhanger and is pretty fitting for the theme of the book.

    David Marquez handles the art and is good looking with an immensely expressive style and precise storytelling.

    Promising beginning. Funny how this was the best Superman-related book this week.

  2. #2
    All-New Member robotgarden's Avatar
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    Batman / Superman # 1, I don't like the fact that Batman and Superman already knew Shazam was Billy Batson. In the story after New 52, the identity should not have been revealed yet. Moreover, they should have a discussion if they find Shazam's true identity is Billy. Because he is still a boy. Not as trained as Robin. Superman should have worried about this fact. This should have been made as a story.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    First issue was alright. Felt like a Loeb Superman/Batman issue with all the good and bad of that era. I do think there’s potential here even though BWL is kind of overexposed. Superman seeing an evil version of Batman could potentially spark some interesting developments. Clark has always known he’s fallible but has he ever seriously considered the damage an evil Batman could do? This series could force him to confront that, but only if Willamson gets away from the typical cliche of “oh I never even consider the possibility that you could go bad!” which I personally find to be stupid. I agree that Clark wouldn’t go down the “plans for rogue JL” route but he absolutely would think about it at least once.

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    First issue was alright. Felt like a Loeb Superman/Batman issue with all the good and bad of that era. I do think there’s potential here even though BWL is kind of overexposed. Superman seeing an evil version of Batman could potentially spark some interesting developments. Clark has always known he’s fallible but has he ever seriously considered the damage an evil Batman could do? This series could force him to confront that, but only if Willamson gets away from the typical cliche of “oh I never even consider the possibility that you could go bad!” which I personally find to be stupid. I agree that Clark wouldn’t go down the “plans for rogue JL” route but he absolutely would think about it at least once.
    The thing is, with thinking about it, all Clark should have to think is how painful it would be for him to have to stop Bruce (if the Batfamily didn't do it). If Kryptonite makes that undoable, then he can think how difficult it would be for Diana, or whoever else. But, of course, BWL is too Batgoddy, so we'd probably get stuck with him thinking how impossible it would be for the combined power of the JL to stop him, since Batman is so phenomenal.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    First issue was alright. Felt like a Loeb Superman/Batman issue with all the good and bad of that era. I do think there’s potential here even though BWL is kind of overexposed. Superman seeing an evil version of Batman could potentially spark some interesting developments. Clark has always known he’s fallible but has he ever seriously considered the damage an evil Batman could do? This series could force him to confront that, but only if Willamson gets away from the typical cliche of “oh I never even consider the possibility that you could go bad!” which I personally find to be stupid. I agree that Clark wouldn’t go down the “plans for rogue JL” route but he absolutely would think about it at least once.
    This is pretty much how I feel as well. It's my personal headcanon that Clark helped Bruce formulate some early anti-Kryptonian plans as a consultant the minute Zod, Supergirl or some degree of mind control came up. He's idealistic, not stupid. He probably has a general plan about how to take down Bruce, but not rigidly detailed and he probably sees the wisdom in keeping that to himself.

    I will say I enjoyed the issue a lot and echo the sentiment it felt like the Loeb run (which I admit having a soft spot for), but frankly the art was outstanding. I'm 100% over The Batman Who Laughs, but I hope Williamson and Marquez can overcome my apathy for the villain and deliver a fun story. Who knows, maybe they'll be the ones to convince me TBWL isn't a lazy, dumb idea.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by robotgarden View Post
    Batman / Superman # 1, I don't like the fact that Batman and Superman already knew Shazam was Billy Batson. In the story after New 52, the identity should not have been revealed yet. Moreover, they should have a discussion if they find Shazam's true identity is Billy. Because he is still a boy. Not as trained as Robin. Superman should have worried about this fact. This should have been made as a story.


    This is'nt new 52. This is the rebirth, post reborn continuity.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    This is pretty much how I feel as well. It's my personal headcanon that Clark helped Bruce formulate some early anti-Kryptonian plans as a consultant the minute Zod, Supergirl or some degree of mind control came up. He's idealistic, not stupid. He probably has a general plan about how to take down Bruce, but not rigidly detailed and he probably sees the wisdom in keeping that to himself.

    I will say I enjoyed the issue a lot and echo the sentiment it felt like the Loeb run (which I admit having a soft spot for), but frankly the art was outstanding. I'm 100% over The Batman Who Laughs, but I hope Williamson and Marquez can overcome my apathy for the villain and deliver a fun story. Who knows, maybe they'll be the ones to convince me TBWL isn't a lazy, dumb idea.
    I mean Clark gives Bruce the Kryptonite ring. That shows he’s at least conscious that he could fall, and if he has thought about it in regards to himself, why would he not consider what would happen in the others? I think he has a general outline of a plan, but I’m also totally ok with it being nowhere as detailed as Bruce. And I 100% agree that if he did have a plan, he wouldn’t tell Bruce.
    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    This is'nt new 52. This is the rebirth, post reborn continuity.
    Shazam didn’t get any of his past history back. He’s still Johns and Frank Shazam from the New 52. But he was on the JL, so maybe they found out his secret off panel. I’m sure Batman would’ve investigated who the new guy was at the very least.

  8. #8
    Spectacular Member Man_of_Tomorrow's Avatar
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    Definitely not my cup of tea.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    I liked it, but the preview they put out early gave everything away. It would've been better if I didn't know it was Billy who was infected.

    The art was really good!
    Admiral of a fleet of ships—relationships!
    Comicbooks are nothing to me without ships and romance!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I mean Clark gives Bruce the Kryptonite ring. That shows he’s at least conscious that he could fall, and if he has thought about it in regards to himself, why would he not consider what would happen in the others? I think he has a general outline of a plan, but I’m also totally ok with it being nowhere as detailed as Bruce. And I 100% agree that if he did have a plan, he wouldn’t tell Bruce.

    Shazam didn’t get any of his past history back. He’s still Johns and Frank Shazam from the New 52. But he was on the JL, so maybe they found out his secret off panel. I’m sure Batman would’ve investigated who the new guy was at the very least.
    We don't know that. They could have just reinserted superman knowing billy. Reborn did effect everyone to certain degree in dcu. Continuity has become much more fluid.

  11. #11
    All-New Member robotgarden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    We don't know that. They could have just reinserted superman knowing billy. Reborn did effect everyone to certain degree in dcu. Continuity has become much more fluid.

    If so, it's totally stupid. They abandoned the freshness of "heroes first knowing each other". It is a completely meaningless modification. Reborn was a completely bad event. The current Superman origin is still unknown, and we don't know what has happened in the past and what hasn't happened. It is useless “fluidity”. As for Shazam, though, as long as I read the issue, Shazam seems to maintain continuity from New 52. It doesn't look like something changed after Rebirth.
    Last edited by robotgarden; 08-29-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by robotgarden View Post
    If so, it's totally stupid. They abandoned the freshness of "heroes first knowing each other". It is a completely meaningless modification. Reborn was a completely bad event. The current Superman origin is still unknown, and we don't know what has happened in the past and what hasn't happened. It is useless “fluidity”. As for Shazam, though, as long as I read the issue, Shazam seems to maintain continuity from New 52. It doesn't look like something changed after Rebirth.
    What freshness? Heroes meeting each other thing has been done to death already. Move on. As for, reborn being bad. It is the only reason manhunter's past with jl was restored. As for shazam's continuity, he is part of dc. Things pertaining to superman, doomsday clock.. Etc effects him. Especially, since his main villain black adam is part of doomsday clock. Need i remind you, this superman is now a vetran with 10 year old kid not a young gun looking for social justice . Nor, the justice league the first meeting defined like in New52.New52 justice league was only reformation of the team after it got disbanded during the death of superman. There were many iterations of the league before the new52 team. Clark and bruce didn't meet diana like in new52 either. Ofcourse, it stands to reason that the way the others met has changed.
    Your opinion, of reborn aside. It did what it was supposed to do. Bring back more history of dc as a whole and create an amalgam superman an dcu.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Yeah, it was ok. Art was great. My main issue is that the previews gave so much of it away, it was like buying a 5 page comic. It's a Superman/Batman comic. It's kicking off an event. Why did they feel the need to show off so much of it from front to back. It was going to sell regardless.

  14. #14
    All-New Member robotgarden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    What freshness? Heroes meeting each other thing has been done to death already. Move on. As for, reborn being bad. It is the only reason manhunter's past with jl was restored. As for shazam's continuity, he is part of dc. Things pertaining to superman, doomsday clock.. Etc effects him. Especially, since his main villain black adam is part of doomsday clock. Need i remind you, this superman is now a vetran with 10 year old kid not a young gun looking for social justice . Nor, the justice league the first meeting defined like in New52.New52 justice league was only reformation of the team after it got disbanded during the death of superman. There were many iterations of the league before the new52 team. Clark and bruce didn't meet diana like in new52 either. Ofcourse, it stands to reason that the way the others met has changed.
    Your opinion, of reborn aside. It did what it was supposed to do. Bring back more history of dc as a whole and create an amalgam superman an dcu.
    Freshness is the “first” experienced by heroes and the “growth” that occurs there. I can no longer see the troubles and conflicts of the heroes caused by Shazam's identity.

    Superman's merge was the worst. New 52 Superman's identity is all gone. His worries, conflicts, joy and love have disappeared. I don't know what happened to the Justice League story. (I believe it has not disappeared) In that sense, I don't think that fusion with Pre-Flashpoint is all that good.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by robotgarden View Post
    Freshness is the “first” experienced by heroes and the “growth” that occurs there. I can no longer see the troubles and conflicts of the heroes caused by Shazam's identity.

    Superman's merge was the worst. New 52 Superman's identity is all gone. His worries, conflicts, joy and love have disappeared. I don't know what happened to the Justice League story. (I believe it has not disappeared) In that sense, I don't think that fusion with Pre-Flashpoint is all that good.
    Dude, as i said its been done to death. Justice league story is pretty much irrelevant. Superman and batman didn't meet wonder woman like in the new52. Snyder doesn't seem to reference new52 runs at all. Heck! At this point he has referenced more from past continuities than anything from new52. Manhunter is back and was a league member, always. What conflict is there left for clark with billy being captain marvel ? Clark is gone past "the kids are not supposed to be superheroes" albeit reluctantly and resisting it with jon.Sure, he may still not like the idea. But, he is stuck with it and has to deal with it. Not true! Some parts of that continuity is still part of current one.clark had worn new52 armour and had adventures in it.
    Regarding conflicts, well every version of superman "fights a never ending battle for truth, justice and the american way". That is will always be there. And as for love, how is smww thing going to work when clark is married and has a kid?

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