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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly Frankenstein View Post
    Few sentences. Hmmmm.

    A being from another pocket universe who shape shifts comes to Earth Prime and, to honor Superman, takes the form of a Supergirl. Later, to save the life of a troubled teen, she/it merges with Linda Danvers to become a new Supergirl with supernatural ties.

    That was easy. And, yes, PAD Supergirl is my fave as well. A very deep character.
    Wasn't Matrix--who Lex modelled after his dead love, Lana Lang--already in the body of a Supergirl, with the blonde hair and costume, before she met the DCU Superman? So the Supergirl form was a priori and thus wouldn't need be in honour of the a posteriori DCU Superman.

    Was the DCU Earth called Earth Prime at that time? Because that's confusing as Superboy Prime is so-called because he comes from Earth-Prime--which pre-Crisis was our Earth, the same place that our Julius Schwartz, Cary Bates, Elliot Maggin and Carmine Infantino lived on--along with the rest of us now.

    How does the pocket universe exist, when that whole continuity for the Legion of Super-Heroes was retconned out of existence, first in 1990 and then again in 1994? If the pocket universe never existed, how does Matrix exist? Are we supposed to imagine some untold story of her origin in the post-Zero Hour universe?

    So Matix saves Linda Danvers? But I've read about an Earth-born angel that comes up in all this. Was Linda the angel or was Matrix? Or did them merging make the angel? I never read the story, so I don't understand how it all worked out. Just from reading the synopsis it seems pretty hard to follow.
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  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Wasn't Matrix--who Lex modelled after his dead love, Lana Lang--already in the body of a Supergirl, with the blonde hair and costume, before she met the DCU Superman? So the Supergirl form was a priori and thus wouldn't need be in honour of the a posteriori DCU Superman.

    Was the DCU Earth called Earth Prime at that time? Because that's confusing as Superboy Prime is so-called because he comes from Earth-Prime--which pre-Crisis was our Earth, the same place that our Julius Schwartz, Cary Bates, Elliot Maggin and Carmine Infantino lived on--along with the rest of us now.

    How does the pocket universe exist, when that whole continuity for the Legion of Super-Heroes was retconned out of existence, first in 1990 and then again in 1994? If the pocket universe never existed, how does Matrix exist? Are we supposed to imagine some untold story of her origin in the post-Zero Hour universe?

    So Matix saves Linda Danvers? But I've read about an Earth-born angel that comes up in all this. Was Linda the angel or was Matrix? Or did them merging make the angel? I never read the story, so I don't understand how it all worked out. Just from reading the synopsis it seems pretty hard to follow.
    And none of it is as simple as Superman's cousin who also survived Krypton, which can be boiled down to just one sentence to get the immediate point and association to Superman across.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    And none of it is as simple as Superman's cousin who also survived Krypton, which can be boiled down to just one sentence to get the immediate point and association to Superman across.
    That’s exactly why they brought Kara back in the first place. Less insanely convoluted than the previous Supergirl.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    That’s exactly why they brought Kara back in the first place. Less insanely convoluted than the previous Supergirl.
    Unfortunately it was a bit too little, too late. Because now Kara was introduced into a continuity where none of her previous history was intact, she was no longer friends with Batgirl and now she was a newbie even compared to Kon's generation.

    Ugh, DC's continuity...

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    pre-Crisis original. Particularly the 80s era immediately prior to the Crisis. Second would probably be New 52.

    I grew up on the Matrix interpretation, and even then being all about post-Crisis ideas, that was an element I didn't really buy in. I knew even then that she should be Superman's cousin and something was off. The merge and angel stuff also did nothing for me. Creative stories, but not Supergirl to me.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 08-31-2019 at 11:23 AM.
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  6. #21
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Pretty much all of them. I loved the Supergirl Archives, 8th grade adventures, the limited bronze age that's accessible, Mae, Linda, several returned Karas, Cir El, One Million, Rebirth, and New 52. Even Byrne's Namorita.

    ...haha, for a subset of a franchise that's pretty nuts. At least GL and Flash are constantly tethered to their histories. But Supergirl is always fun. For the complaint about how the 1996 volume was so complicated all I can say is yes... but those stories have to be allowed to tell themselves. Just because they don't fit a neat high concept doesn't mean they're hard or unengaging. That period where he (and Schultz in Man of Steel) emulated the cartoon version was cool, so was David's Kara.

    Mae was cool because she was so different. I'm not a fan of Kryptonians having different powers but if she's not Kryptonian then problem solved. I think every good group needs a weird alien and shapeshifter, and that's two in one. I loved her convergence story because it's so weird and different from Kara.

    Ultimately I am a little biased toward the real Kara and her her pre crisis arc. I'd kill for a bronze age 2 part omnibus, covering her series, Adventure Comics, and Superman family. I have Adventure #411 and I guess that's the jewel of my Supergirl collection.
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  7. #22
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    Not really a complaint on my part, just an observation, but I would assume if DC was going to revive Supergirl, they would try to avoid the overly complicated pitfalls of the original. They can see where they went wrong with the first one and not do that with the next one. But it looks like they can't do that and they always have to have some narrative gymnastics to brute force a Supergirl into the universe. Which is, quite frankly, in contrast to Superman's basic origin--doomed planet, desperate scientists, last hope, kindly couple.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Wasn't Matrix--who Lex modelled after his dead love, Lana Lang--already in the body of a Supergirl, with the blonde hair and costume, before she met the DCU Superman? So the Supergirl form was a priori and thus wouldn't need be in honour of the a posteriori DCU Superman.

    Was the DCU Earth called Earth Prime at that time? Because that's confusing as Superboy Prime is so-called because he comes from Earth-Prime--which pre-Crisis was our Earth, the same place that our Julius Schwartz, Cary Bates, Elliot Maggin and Carmine Infantino lived on--along with the rest of us now.

    How does the pocket universe exist, when that whole continuity for the Legion of Super-Heroes was retconned out of existence, first in 1990 and then again in 1994? If the pocket universe never existed, how does Matrix exist? Are we supposed to imagine some untold story of her origin in the post-Zero Hour universe?

    So Matix saves Linda Danvers? But I've read about an Earth-born angel that comes up in all this. Was Linda the angel or was Matrix? Or did them merging make the angel? I never read the story, so I don't understand how it all worked out. Just from reading the synopsis it seems pretty hard to follow.

    Now you just made it too complicated. Lol. It’s like any other character, the more stories, the more complicated history gets. PAD took a concept and threw it on its ear. The problem with a lot of comics these days is lack of complex stories. I remember twenty years ago, a good 22 pager could take 20-30 minutes to read. I just got through Amazing Spider-man #27 in ten minutes and don’t get me started on my five minute read of Batman/Superman #1. Nowadays you spend 3.99 on a ten minute read when back in the day it was a buck fitty for 20 minutes of good story. I’ll take my PAD Supergirl/Aquaman/X-Factor any day and a continuous triangle era Superman over some of the abbreviated babble we got in some books today. That’s why I love the streaming service where I can read the old stuff.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly Frankenstein View Post
    Now you just made it too complicated. Lol. It’s like any other character, the more stories, the more complicated history gets. PAD took a concept and threw it on its ear. The problem with a lot of comics these days is lack of complex stories. I remember twenty years ago, a good 22 pager could take 20-30 minutes to read. I just got through Amazing Spider-man #27 in ten minutes and don’t get me started on my five minute read of Batman/Superman #1. Nowadays you spend 3.99 on a ten minute read when back in the day it was a buck fitty for 20 minutes of good story. I’ll take my PAD Supergirl/Aquaman/X-Factor any day and a continuous triangle era Superman over some of the abbreviated babble we got in some books today. That’s why I love the streaming service where I can read the old stuff.

    And by Amazing Spider-Man 27, I mean the col 6 or 7 that just came out, not the old school volume one.

  10. #25
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    Pre-Crisis iteration. It isn’t even close.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    Linda Danvers/Matrix.



    I'd just change the costume and call her Flamebird. Connect her to the Kryptonian deity instead of the Earth born angel.

    Attachment 86410
    Ah, so I'm not the only one who imagined that if Linda were to return, she'd better off with using "Flamebird" lol.

    Problem is that Bette already uses that name, though I think she changed at some point? Not sure...

  12. #27
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    Pre Crisis Supergirl, Definately. But even then, there seem to be so many different eras for HER - high school student, reporter, soap opera actress, multiple college student eras.

    SIDENOTE- I remember PAD writing once that he wanted to make his Supergirl series a team nook with ‘his’ Supergirl, Power Girl and his silver age version of Supergirl. I think that woulda been a fun read.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Pre-COIE Kara is my favorite version of the character . Her demise was one of the best DC deaths of all time. It made me cry for real when I first read the issue.
    Agreed. My collecting be all and end all is to collect every one of this character's appearances in the Silver/Bronze/Copper Age. And I still choke up at that cover. I even gave Perez crap for it in person, his response, "but that's what they wanted and they paid me for it, quite well."

  14. #29
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    Whenever Jimmy Olsen rubs his totem, another Supergirl is created.
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  15. #30
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I wouldn't call Cir El my favorite but I was fond of her character and would love to see her make a comeback in the comics.

    My favorite incarnation of Supergirl was the one in the DCAU. Her personality was consistent. Comic Kara is all over the place when it comes to personality.
    that's the single writer vs multiple issue. It's easy to have consistency when it's a single writer.

    Cir-el was a great character concept. But she was part of a temporal paradox that ensured she'd cease to exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    STAS/JLU gave us a pretty good halfway in personality between her and Power Girl, but that backstory was such a mess just so Clark can remain the last Kryptonian. Matrix was similarly muddled with "but muh Clark is the last one."
    Heh, she's officially not Kryptonian, but... the explanation for what she IS is basically a Kryptonian. IE she wasn't born on Krypton, but she's actually a descendant of Kryptonians who colonized the planet Argo. So she's officially an "Argoan". Which is a much more minor change than people think. The name In-Ze could mean she's a bit farther a relation from Kal-El, although classic Kara's mother is named Alura In-Ze. So might not be a big change... It amuses me that Kal-El described the Argoan race as "cousins" of Kryptonians.

    It's normal for Supergirl to be from a place named Argo. Most of them were a city on Krypton though. Donnerverse is... not well explained. They're Kryptonians living somewhere named Argo that survived the destruction of Krypton. Apparently, it was a domed city prior to the planet's destruction and somehow got ejected into something....
    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    Interestingly, I just read where someone suggested the Flamebird name for Connor. It makes a lot more sense for Matrix if she has the flame wings. Sadly I can't see DC ever using her again, but I think the name would work.
    That'd only work if it involved the Flamebird entity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    pre-Crisis original. Particularly the 80s era immediately prior to the Crisis. Second would probably be New 52.

    I grew up on the Matrix interpretation, and even then being all about post-Crisis ideas, that was an element I didn't really buy in. I knew even then that she should be Superman's cousin and something was off. The merge and angel stuff also did nothing for me. Creative stories, but not Supergirl to me.
    It's like with Donna Troy. WHAT the character is got changed repeatedly. It's just not good for having a consistent setting.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 09-01-2019 at 09:49 AM.

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