Young Justice

[Chubistian]

I'm enjoying the current arc more than I did Mars. I think the Mars arc should have been shorter. I don't know much of DC's magic side, so I'm problably missing in a lot of easter eggs and references. Still, I'm having a good time. I knew that I wouldn't be as excited as I was with the Tigress storyline and definitely I'm looking forward to seeing what the Nightwing part has to offer, as that is closer to the DC comics I tend to read

[Frontier]

Two seasons of Traci, and we barely know her either.

Now that you mention it, Traci was seemingly Zee's first protege and we were introduced to her first and yet she still feels like she's barely involved compared to Mary and Khalid who have more going on in this arc.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Now that you mention it, Traci was seemingly Zee's first protege and we were introduced to her first and yet she still feels like she's barely involved compared to Mary and Khalid who have more going on in this arc.

Freakin' Rocket was introduced in the first season, and we barely know her.

So par for the course, really.

[Gnostic]

Who on Earth isn’t a descendant of Vandal? lol

[Mistah K88]

Freakin' Rocket was introduced in the first season, and we barely know her.

So par for the course, really.

To be fair with Rocket, Milestone’s rights issues were all over the place. Sometimes they were able to use the characters, sometimes they weren’t.

I had a thought about the Lords of Order vs that of Chaos… the former doesn’t seem to create physical manifestations of themselves with something as an anchor. It seems that they choose mortals to become the lord with an enchanted headpiece (so far)

[The Cool Thatguy]

To be fair with Rocket, Milestone’s rights issues were all over the place. Sometimes they were able to use the characters, sometimes they weren’t.

I had a thought about the Lords of Order vs that of Chaos… the former doesn’t seem to create physical manifestations of themselves with something as an anchor. It seems that they choose mortals to become the lord with an enchanted headpiece (so far)

I'd have thought they would have gotten the rights figured out before she appeared. She's been around every season, just not doing a damn thing (sadly)

[Frontier]

Freakin' Rocket was introduced in the first season, and we barely know her.

So par for the course, really.

At least she's getting her own arc this season, so it seems like they'll finally rectify that.

[TheCasualReader]

(I hope this doesn't count as double-posting)

"Nomed Esir!"

Jason Blood is a magical character that I like and I thought he was so well-done here, including his manner of speaking which felt very befitting someone with his backstory. I absolutely loved his scene and it’s honestly the best animated Jason Blood I’ve seen.

However, I could have done without his inclusion because I preferred the tight storytelling from the first episode (of the arc)

In "Odnu", everyone was there because they were relevant to the plot. The cast didn't need to expand further.

You have Zatanna as a mentor and with someone who has faced Klarion as an enemy and someone who has relied on Doctor Fate despite the the grief he’s caused her. Zatanna being forced to work with both is a really good premise for a story with a lot of opportunity for interactions between the three (and her apprentices) Meanwhile, the Child is a good threat to warrant an alliance between Zatanna, Klarion and Nabu.

Then you have her three apprentices as the future Sentinels of Magic who are still learning and now have to rise to face a challenge that they would be woefully unprepared for even if they were fully trained socerers – a classic premise, too.

I feel like introducing a bunch of other magical characters dilutes the story rather than enhances it. For example, you are going to have a bunch of, honestly, superfluous characters who are either going to stand around and be little more than cameos with some lines or are going to lead to time being stretched thin between everyone.

Compare Jason Blood and Etrigan's appearance in this episode to Madame Xanadu's appearance in the previous episode.

Madame Xanadu is briefly introduced, has her deal explained and she serves to lead the group to the last known location of the chaotic energy they felt as well as foreshadow Khalid's connection to Kent Nelson. She fulfills her role in the story and then exits the story.

Etrigan (and Jason Blood) are introduced as an ally to help fight the Child, but Etrigan's showing in the battle between the Child and Klarion does the opposite to demonstrate that his assistance would make a difference. Ultimately, his role in the fight amounts to redundancy; Klarion kills the Child and she simply regenerates. Etrigan kills the Child and she simply regenerates.

We learn the exact same thing twice except we have no reason to think that Etrigan would fare any better than Klarion since Klarion is established as being so powerful that only Doctor Fate can really contend with him in terms of power.

Speaking of Doctor Fate, why do we need to introduce an ensemble of magical heroes when Doctor Fate is the character who combats Lords of Chaos - it's literally his shtick.

The story doesn't benefit from adding Jason Blood, or any other magical hero for that matter, to this arc's cast. Maybe that'll change but this episode did not sell me on this direction.

There was still plenty I liked in the episode. For example, I liked that we finally saw Vandal Savage and Nabu interact. You can tell that Vandal Savage basically still sees himself as having some authority over Nabu as his father based on the way he talks to him: at times it comes close to having the tone of someone talking down to their child. There’s also the dismissive way he addresses Nabu’s conflict with himself and Klarion: “I know you don’t like Klarion. Or me.”

I was also amused to find out that the flashbacks were Vandal Savage narrating an entire excerpt of his own biography to Nabu. Seriously, the only thing relevant to their discussion was the Sinking of Atlantis but he went over the creation of Atlantis, the birth of his grandson, his name change, the first immortal of his family line etc.

I can't help but imagine what it must have looked like from Nabu's perspective - so, here it is: https://i.imgur.com/KnDCGcK.png

Maybe the reason Nabu doesn't like his father isn't just the evil but also the fact that Vandal Savage apparently ramble on, like old Abe Simpson, about his life.

So yeah, still onboard but didn't enjoy this as much as Odnu and am a bit worried about the rest of the arc. I understand, though, that using loads of characters is a staple of the show.

[TheRay]

Who on Earth isn’t a descendant of Vandal? lol

Quite a good point, but, then again, Witch Boy...

[skyvolt2000]

To be fair with Rocket, Milestone’s rights issues were all over the place. Sometimes they were able to use the characters, sometimes they weren’t.

I had a thought about the Lords of Order vs that of Chaos… the former doesn’t seem to create physical manifestations of themselves with something as an anchor. It seems that they choose mortals to become the lord with an enchanted headpiece (so far)

There were no issues with Milestone when it came to the tv shows. Those are two different set of contracts. The more deals you make the more issues you get.

Like how we saw Teen Titans with Protector and not Robin on some products in the 80s.

Static (who has been WASTED on the show worst than Rocket) was on the show and in the original covers for the then ongoing YJ comic-Icon and Rocket were on the covers. Yet when the final covers came out both were gone.

Milestone (mainly McDuffie) had issues with DC claiming they wanted to use everybody yet only Static got used in books.

The unprofessional behavior of the comic side soured them before McDuffie's wife took issue with Hudlin and Cowans plans. Which is why we have a complete Kyle Baker book that is out there somewhere while his covers have made it to the current Static book at $25 a pop on Ebay.

[The Cool Thatguy]

There were no issues with Milestone when it came to the tv shows. Those are two different set of contracts. The more deals you make the more issues you get.

Like how we saw Teen Titans with Protector and not Robin on some products in the 80s.

Static (who has been WASTED on the show worst than Rocket) was on the show and in the original covers for the then ongoing YJ comic-Icon and Rocket were on the covers. Yet when the final covers came out both were gone.

Milestone (mainly McDuffie) had issues with DC claiming they wanted to use everybody yet only Static got used in books.

The unprofessional behavior of the comic side soured them before McDuffie's wife took issue with Hudlin and Cowans plans. Which is why we have a complete Kyle Baker book that is out there somewhere while his covers have made it to the current Static book at $25 a pop on Ebay.

I would still argue that Rocket was wasted more, and it's not hard to see why McDuffie was angry.

Rocket, unlike every one else, motivated her hero to start his career. She got Icon to become a superhero, and became his sidekick. Compare that with literally everyone else, and there's some storytelling gold that's just been left to wither on the vine, IMO.

[TheRay]

Is there any possibility of a Young Justice sub forum? How do those happen?

[John Venus]

Is there any possibility of a Young Justice sub forum? How do those happen?

If there are enough people interested in the show posting here and one thread isn't enough to contain all the discussions.

[TheRay]

So no, then.

[Frontier]

It was nice to see Zatanna take more direct action in this episode but this was more of an episode about her protege's than it was about her, and her father did more to convince Fate to help than she did. I'm still really worried that Zee is falling by the wayside because of the heaviness of the plot and cast of her arc.

It was interesting learning more about the Lords of Order and how they don't directly interfere like the Lords of Chaos do, only agreeing to send basically their power or spirit through a host or chosen champion. What would it take to actually get one of them to come down physically to Earth? The end of all existence?

Man, Vandal Savage really has a bad habit of screwing with civilizations he's not satisfied with through Klarion. Worst progenitor ever.

I guess it was nice of the Lords of Order to bump up Nabu as a reward for his heroism and intelligence after his fathers' hubris got him killed...

So who all are Jason and Phantom Stranger going to recruit and how many will be old/new characters? I mean, Blue Devil will probably show up, maybe Xanadu, but I wonder who else they could get.

Oh hey, they actually got back Whitney Moore to play Stargirl. I thought they'd just recast her when it seemed like they were rebooting the character to be more like the comics. Although it's kind of weird that Courtney is the one trying to talk to Gar while he's in his funk while the people who have known him longer, Cassie and Eduardo, just sit around silently shaking their heads or not even reacting like a lot of YJ characters do when they don't have their VA's in the episode. Like, reallly, Cassie should've been the one to say something.

Khalid knows who Inza is because of her connection to Kent Nelson, I imagine. Although it's interesting seeing probably the one personal thing of a Fate host in the Tower.

Traci's test involving her insecurities is drawing from, like, one of the only character traits I can remember about her from last season, so it was nice to see her finally get some character focus. I did find it kind of odd that her father, Doctor Thirteen, never came up because you'd think this would be the perfect time to address that element of her character.

So Traci is still dating Jaime? I was wondering about that. It was nice to hear Eric Lopez again even if we didn't get to actually see Blue Beetle, but he was less convincing as young Billy Batson.

We meet Khalid's parents Kent Nelson's niece who converted to Islam (so Khalid has always been half-white, huh?) and how Khalid's been trying to juggle his Faith with his Sorcerer abilities while also wanting to be a doctor and how he reconciles all of that. And the parallel with Zatara's own faith. Does Zatanna know he's going to be the next Fate? Because she seemed to imply something about him becoming a "doctor."

Khalid's dad reminded me of Kamala Khan's dad. I guess that is kind of the traditional Muslim dad look/personality.

Was that supposed to be the train station to the Rock of Eternity?

We finally find out why Mary won't transform anymore and it's because she became addicted to her adult form, and we even see her child form from when she was presumably still using her abilities. Billy and Freddy had to stage an intervention to get her to stop transforming and start being Mary again. To be honest I'm not really sure how I feel about this because taking a sweet, compassionate, and powerful hero like Mary Marvel and then making her Superhero form into a bad thing that she has to reject doesn't feel true to the character to me. Or making Mary Marvel into this aggressive and overbearing presence rather than what it's supposed to be in the general CM-mythos. Like, I could maybe see this with Freddy since, hey, he gets his legs back and gets to be powerful, why would he want to go back, but Mary? And does this mean she'll never transform again because she basically rejected her transformed state for being a sorcerer? But that feels like she's denying a part of herself. Is there a better way to reconcile the two? I'm just not feeling it.

So they went with Mary Marvel's white color scheme, but instead of a skirt they just made her wear a onesie...which honestly just made her look like she's wearing PJ's. I mean, I guess it's the same kind of thing M'Gann wears now that she doesn't have a skirt anymore, but it didn't really look like Mary to me. Does this mean if Supergirl shows up they won't give her a skirt?

"Why are you telling me things I already know?" Okay, we're making this a theme, but they keep annoying characters in-universe with exposition.

It was nice to see flashbacks to the JSA and JL, but it really puts into perspective how much the show's art style has changed since season 1.

Bringing up all the Fate hosts on the show, even the ones who were only Fate for, like, one day.

Did anyone really think Teekl had a chance against Flaw? And now they've lost an edge against the Child and the chance to team-up with Klarion who was desperate enough to go to Fate for help and create his own doorbell.