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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Superman was prolly the worst. Unreadable until Bendis came on.
    Hence all of the critical praise that Tomasi and Gleason's initial run got...

  2. #47

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    Best:

    Superman by Tomasi/Gleason.
    Super Sons by Tomasi.
    Wonder Woman by Rucka.

    Worst:

    Batman by King.

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    That's some fine bait.
    I come close to agreeing with him. I wouldn't go as far as to say outright unreadable, it had a couple standalone gems, and a decent narrative the first half, but it went to crap after Black Dawn. It was and remains today wildly overrated. It had critical praise, but that praise didn't translate into anything special. And story-wise by the end Action Comics was actually the better title and that was just Jurgens doing a retread of his 90s work.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-09-2019 at 12:18 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  4. #49
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Hence all of the critical praise that Tomasi and Gleason's initial run got...
    This run actually brought me back into DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Modamy View Post
    She got better.
    Sounds like a line from Monty Pythons xD Thanks for all the intel, pal.

  5. #50
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I come close to agreeing with him. I wouldn't go as far as to say outright unreadable, it had a couple standalone gems, and a decent narrative the first half, but it went to crap after Black Dawn. It was and remains today wildly overrated. It had critical praise, but that praise didn't translate into anything special. And story-wise by the end Action Comics was actually the better title and that was just Jurgens doing a retread of his 90s work.
    I still think the double shipping a month killed the book for the creative team. Fill-ins, double shipping, Reborn arc plagued the book IMO. Nevertheless, they stepped up their game with the Bizarro arc IMO (yes, I know you aren't a fan of Jon so I'm assuming you aren't a fan of Boyzarro by default.)
    Agreed regarding AC by Jurgens.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    It's all highlu subjective, of course but here's my list - only of actual Rebirth titles, so nothing from Metal onward. It's also just the titles which touched me, in good or bad, the middle ground isn't referenced here, sorry. I also excluded mini which didn't really fit with the Rebirth, like the near perfect Batman : White Knight by Sean Gordon Murphy.

    The Best :

    New Superman : it had some of the tones I really liked about New 52 Superman and it managed to have a great cast and developed a very distinct feel, which made clear all of this didn't happen in the US, and it was great. It was somewhat weakened by Superman Reborn but rebounded rather well.

    Superwoman : Only the part before Superman Reborn. It was great to see Lana from New 52 going forward and becoming a real super-hero, doing her damned best to deal with all the crap that was going on in her life. Plus, New 52 Lana is the best version of this character, ever, so seeing her alive was awesome.

    Deathstroke : It's basically everything King's Batman would like to be but fails at. It's a complex story about a complex character who is never put on a pedestal or anything. Really, it's a must read, if only because of how it relates to other characters such as Damian Wayne and Wallace West, making it an integral part of their characterizations, IMHO.

    Detective Comics : It was honestly great to have so many characters there. Cass and Clayface together were so damn touching, and while sometimes I wished more was explored, it was great.

    Red Hood and the Outlaws : It made Jason, Bizarro and Artemis the perfect family you never knew DC needed but now can't live without. Best Bizarro ever (if only because it's not a chore to read his speech pattern), Artemis' awesome and Jason's was so damn wonderful there - and it still is great !

    Aquaman : Keep developing what Johns did and that's awesome. Also, read the mini-series about Mera, it was great.


    The Worst :

    Batman : Not overnight, I liked it at first, but as time went by I really grew to dislike it. But it's highly divisive, so you'll have to read it to know if you like it or not.

    Cyborg : aimless, with some bright spots which went nowhere. A shame.

    Superwoman : Only after Superman Reborn, which completely destroyed this series and sent all its cast in limbo, seemingly forever (or at least the foreseeable future).

    Titans : F.R.I.E.N.D.S. but with superhero is atrocious; having a pure Justice League beta wasn't a great idea and without any prior attachment to the characters, it was just impossible to care about any of them.

    Wonder Woman : Be it Greg Rucka or RObinson, this book as been utter rubbish and terrible stories since Rebirth. Rucka was especially pathetic in the way he shat on the New 52 continuity and nothing he introduced made for an interesting story, neither "Diana the nympho who's crazy" in the present, nor "Princess Diana the Super-Sugary" in Year One.
    Last edited by Korath; 09-09-2019 at 05:45 AM.

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps was by far the best Rebirth book in my opinion. If felt like a return to form for the Green Lantern franchise and a great continuation of what Johns did and Johns' Green Lantern world-building.
    Uhhh...I really enjoyed the title myself, but I won't as far as to say it was like a "great continuation of Johns' Green Lantern world-building," because the stories didn't have enough depth to build on.

    It was, surprisingly, much better than Robert Vendetti's previous volume of Green Lantern---MUCH better---but it was basically just a bunch of summer blockbuster style, big budget, non-stop action stories accompanied by great art by Sandoval that are fun to read each issue and flip through again from time to time, but nothing substantial enough story wise for any future writers to really build on.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Yeah Vendittiís GL Rebirth run was decent but it felt like a summer blockbuster. Despite being on GL almost as long as Johns I donít think Venditti ever managed to leave a mark on the franchise. Ultimately I think heís going to just end up being the guy who wrote between Johns and Morrison. Heís been doing very well on his smaller side books though, Hawkman and Freedom Fighters are great.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    I didn't like how Jurgens turned Green Lanterns into a second Hal title, either. Everything on Green Lanterns after Humphries left is very forgettable.
    By that point---since it was clear the book was getting ready to end and a new status quo was on the horizon for Hal, Jessica, and Simon---Jurgens was just a reliable veteran DC writer who was placed on the book by higher-ups and entrusted to write a clean, generic wrap up story. So, I wouldn't really fault him for that. It was actually a decent wrap up arc, especially compared to the boring, horribly written crap that came between the end of Sam Humphries' stellar run and the beginning of Jurgens' brief wrap up run.

    Why DC thought it was a good idea for Humphries and Seeley to switch books when both were doing well on their respective books is a mystery many of us are still trying to figure out. Especially since Humphries seems to excel at writing teams and cosmic stuff/"OP" characters, and Seeley is great at street level crime fighting or internal spy type stuff. The switch made no sense whatsoever and basically killed both Green Lanterns AND Nightwing.

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah Venditti’s GL Rebirth run was decent but it felt like a summer blockbuster. Despite being on GL almost as long as Johns I don’t think Venditti ever managed to leave a mark on the franchise. Ultimately I think he’s going to just end up being the guy who wrote between Johns and Morrison. He’s been doing very well on his smaller side books though, Hawkman and Freedom Fighters are great.
    I remember being frustrated at how AWFUL Venditti' Green Lantern was after YEARS of great, classic Johns GL stuff. But in hindsight, it seems to have been bad and not really going anywhere due to heavy editorial interference; I don't think the higher-ups at DC really knew where THEY wanted the Green Lantern franchise to go after Johns' departure, so Venditti probably didn't have much room or freedom to tell the best GL stories that he could and was probably just collecting a check, to be honest. And the horrible Billy Tan art didn't help Venditti's first GL run at all, either; dude couldn't even keep Hal's domino mask consistent from panel to panel .

    Hal Jordan & the GL Corps was MUCH better in comparison, though, and even though it was really just a bunch of mindless blockbuster cosmic action at its core, it made me even more disappointed that Venditti didn't write any GL stuff that good or cool before with the previous 30+ GL issues DC gave him.

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    I still think the double shipping a month killed the book for the creative team. Fill-ins, double shipping, Reborn arc plagued the book IMO. Nevertheless, they stepped up their game with the Bizarro arc IMO (yes, I know you aren't a fan of Jon so I'm assuming you aren't a fan of Boyzarro by default.)
    Agreed regarding AC by Jurgens.
    While not a fan of Jon Boyzarro was definitely a step up storywise from what had been happening before then, I agree. It was creative, my opinions on certain characters doesn't change that. So it definitely ended on a stronger note than it was trending beforehand, I would agree.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  12. #57
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    Even with Jim Lee artwork (which I now classify as technically very good, but lacking in overall emotion and storytelling), Suicide Squad was a turd. As much as I disliked Luke McConnell's art on the book in the 80s, the Ostrander era is what put the team on the map. Adding Harley to the mix would have been okay if DC wasn't pushing her so hard. And they really turned Enchantress into a dull character -- with an even duller outfit. The one that was featured in JLDark during new 52 was more interesting.

    I think the Superman issues by Tomasi and Gleason were some of the best stuff DC put out in the past several years.

    I enjoyed Hawkman (is it considered a Rebirth title), but felt it would have been better with Hawkgirl/woman. But I'm a Shayera fan, so not sure how I'd like it if they used Kendra in the book.

  13. #58
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    Uhhh...I really enjoyed the title myself, but I won't as far as to say it was like a "great continuation of Johns' Green Lantern world-building," because the stories didn't have enough depth to build on.

    It was, surprisingly, much better than Robert Vendetti's previous volume of Green Lantern---MUCH better---but it was basically just a bunch of summer blockbuster style, big budget, non-stop action stories accompanied by great art by Sandoval that are fun to read each issue and flip through again from time to time, but nothing substantial enough story wise for any future writers to really build on.
    There was plenty of depth to build on based on what Johns did. It did well with continuing what was done with the Yellow Lanterns and Larfleeze as well as the Manhunters and the New Gods.

    The story arcs of HJatGLC were definitely summer blockbusters but I think there are things from it that can be built on by future writers. It added a new wrinkle to why the Green and Yellow Corps hate each other, started an unlikely friendship between Guy and Arkillo and a rift between Kyle and Soranik.

    The whole HJatGLC was great and I think it is well worth re-reading.

  14. #59
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I didn't read a whole lot of Rebirth aside from the Superman stuff, but I can at least say my favorite elements of Superman's Rebirth.

    My favorite bit was Good Luthor, who I thought was not only the culmination of years if not decades of characterization for Lex, but also Superman's ultimate, greatest triumph - maybe his greatest possible triumph. Too bad it was so short lived. I'd have kept Good Luthor around for years, maybe forever.

    The worst... I'll be honest, as much as part of me wants to trash the idea of Jon, which I just don't really like, I can't say he wasn't pretty well executed. Ultimately, Jon's really good overall. I think the real worst bit was the whole Mxyzptlk arc, the way DC pretended like it was "unifying" two disparate ideas of the Man of Steel, when really it was just going to keep using one of them indefinitely. And who did they think they were trying to fool? Reborn wasn't to unite two versions of Superman, it was to streamline (and destroy) continuity, give Superman a new costume (the best costume in Superman history, imho), and keep doing the same same thing as before! And none of the fans thought otherwise, so I honestly don't know why DC made such a big deal out of the pretense of unifying the New 52 and Rebirth Supermen.

    Incidentally, I really don't like Bendis' stuff, though I don't consider it part of "Rebirth" anymore, but he understood that to change Superman's costume, you just need to say, "Hey, he's wearing a new costume, look at that!" You don't need a retcon.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    The story arcs of HJatGLC were definitely summer blockbusters but I think there are things from it that can be built on by future writers. It added a new wrinkle to why the Green and Yellow Corps hate each other, started an unlikely friendship between Guy and Arkillo and a rift between Kyle and Soranik.
    See, stuff like that was so few and far between, that I remember reading these things specifically and thinking, "Nice try, but it will soon be forgotten once he's (Venditti) done writing the characters." ESPECIALLY the Kyle/Soranik thing, where she literally left Kyle scared for life. I can see all future artists drawing a battle damaged, half-shirtless Kyle with ZERO scars on his chest or upper torso, and the writers paired with them not even referencing it. I guess time will tell...

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