Justice, Like Lightning - Thunderbolts Appreciation 2019

[Michael Watkins]

Sunspot needs to beat him up, because he's undoing the good rep he brought to the name.

Eh. Personally I don't think that Roberto did anything to earn the name. I have no idea why he would even use a code name. He had zero connection to the V-Battalion.

[Michael Watkins]

It feels strange to me that Zemo is just doing the same exact thing as the first time. You'd think people would be a little suspicious of a new team of Thunderbolts lead by an anonymous Citizen V...

This isn't about reforming the Thunderbolts. He's trying to murder Frank Castle in public. He and his Hydra troops can't do that alongside Fisk's private security as Hydra for PR reasons. He probably just pulled the costume out of the hamper at the last minute.

[H-E-D]

This isn't about reforming the Thunderbolts. He's trying to murder Frank Castle in public. He and his Hydra troops can't do that alongside Fisk's private security as Hydra for PR reasons. He probably just pulled the costume out of the hamper at the last minute.

I mean, yeah, but they still put on a whole press conference.

[Dermie]

Eh. Personally I don't think that Roberto did anything to earn the name. I have no idea why he would even use a code name. He had zero connection to the V-Battalion.

Agreed. It was a rare mis-step from Ewing, imo. It made no sense to me that Roberto chose a new code name at all, and in particular no sense that he chose that name. Thankfully he almost never actually used the name in-story, but still, it was a really odd choice...especially since last I heard John Watkins III is still active as Citizen V (even though it is off-panel only).

[H-E-D]

That was just about doubling down on the USA concept. Same reason Toni became Iron Patriot.

[Dermie]

That was just about doubling down on the USA concept. Same reason Toni became Iron Patriot.

That would make sense if Citizen V were American. The first Citizen V was an Englishman. The 2nd (his wife) was French.

Dallas Riordan would be the only American Citizen V that we know of.

[H-E-D]

That would make sense if Citizen V were American. The first Citizen V was an Englishman. The 2nd (his wife) was French.

Dallas Riordan would be the only American Citizen V that we know of.

Zemo's Citizen V costume was styled around the American flag and I think that's what people think of when they think of the title.

[Dermie]

Zemo's Citizen V costume was styled around the American flag and I think that's what people think of when they think of the title.

In terms of citizens of the Marvel Universe, in-story, yeah I could see that. In terms of readers though, most readers who are familiar with Citizen V at all are T-Bolts readers who know the proper background.

[H-E-D]

In terms of citizens of the Marvel Universe, in-story, yeah I could see that. In terms of readers though, most readers who are familiar with Citizen V at all are T-Bolts readers who know the proper background.

I don't know if I think that Zemo was full of **** would stop most readers from giving the titles American Patriotic associations. Zemo's incarnation is surely more well known than John Watkins III.

[Dermie]

I don't know if I think that Zemo was full of **** would stop most readers from giving the titles American Patriotic associations. Zemo's incarnation is surely more well known than John Watkins III.

Depends on the reader, I suppose.

As for which is more well known....its hard to say. Until the current PUNISHER arc, Zemo's run as Citizen V was only 12 issues long. Watkins III had more than that between his two miniseries as well as his stint as a recurring character in T-BOLTS...but that gets complicated since Zemo's mind was in Watkins' body for some of that.

And in between the two, we've got Dallas' stint--in her padded-to-look-male costume and her properly fitted costume.

Zemo's CV had the widest exposure outside of the T-BOLTS book...but that was a brief period and 20 years ago. I still think it is mostly T-BOLTS readers who are most likely to know or care about the Citizen V name.

[H-E-D]

If I had to guess, the original plan was for Roberto to take the costume, and not just the name. I don't think it would have made it's way onto this teaser image otherwise.

All-New-All-Different-Marvel-branding-2.jpg

Depends on the reader, I suppose.

As for which is more well known....its hard to say. Until the current PUNISHER arc, Zemo's run as Citizen V was only 12 issues long. Watkins III had more than that between his two miniseries as well as his stint as a recurring character in T-BOLTS...but that gets complicated since Zemo's mind was in Watkins' body for some of that.

And in between the two, we've got Dallas' stint--in her padded-to-look-male costume and her properly fitted costume.

Zemo's CV had the widest exposure outside of the T-BOLTS book...but that was a brief period and 20 years ago. I still think it is mostly T-BOLTS readers who are most likely to know or care about the Citizen V name.

I guess my feeling is that while Zemo's stint was briefer, it was rather prominent, much talked about, and well remembered.

[Digifiend]

That teaser image is from the wrong year. U.S.Avengers would coincide with the reused Marvel NOW! branding. New Avengers before it was the ANAD series. That Citizen V image represents Jim Zub's Thunderbolts - and yes, it was a mistake, since Citizen V wasn't on the team.

[H-E-D]

Whoops. Hard to keep all these Marvel Nows and All-New eras straight...

[H-E-D]

Is it naïve of me to hope that Zemo's upcoming appearance in the Falcon/Winter Soldier show could be leading to an MCU take on the Thunderbolts? I've never seen the paucity of surviving villains from other movies as a real roadblock to the Tbolts showing up.

To me, the absolute bare-minimum for a true initial Thunderbolts line-up would be Zemo, Songbird and Moonstone. It'd be fun to get the whole OG crew, but to me those the ones I'll never budge on.

[Frontier]

Is it naïve of me to hope that Zemo's upcoming appearance in the Falcon/Winter Soldier show could be leading to an MCU take on the Thunderbolts? I've never seen the paucity of surviving villains from other movies as a real roadblock to the Tbolts showing up.

To me, the absolute bare-minimum for a true initial Thunderbolts line-up would be Zemo, Songbird and Moonstone. It'd be fun to get the whole OG crew, but to me those the ones I'll never budge on.

I think Abe and Atlats should be in there too. Plus, Zemo without Fixer would seem weird .

But yeah, I think Bruhl had a few more films under his contract so I think Thunderbolts/Masters of Evil will happen at some point.