What would the comics have been like if Gwen had lived?

[Mister Mets]

There were some digressions in another thread about how the comics might be different if "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" had never been published.

So what do you guys think would have happened, if Marvel had never gone through with that story? Would Peter and Gwen have broken up, like Matt Murdock and Karen Page? Would they have gotten married?

One prospect: there probably wouldn't be a clone saga, since that all kicked off in the aftermath of Gwen's death.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Remember that Gerry Conway was writing ASM. He said that the plan was hatched by Romita Sr. (at the time virtually the editor of the Spider-man titles, though that position wasn't solidified then) to kill a major character. Conway nominated Gwen because she was disposable but also emotionally impactful.

Conway said that if there was no plan to kill off a character, he would have broken Peter and Gwen up and have him move on with Mary Jane.

In this altered state, Gwen Stacy would lose a lot of her sheen. She would be seen as Betty Brant 2.0, i.e. another relationship that didn't work out, and not as Peter's greatest love. Gwen got that status because she died before she and Peter broke up.

Without Gwen's death and the Clone Saga, it's likely that Gerry Conway's run would have lasted longer. Conway said that the backlash to Gwen's death and the death threats he received (in addition to issues with how Lee handled that) made him leave Spider-Man early. Without that, I think Conway would have continued longer. What would a longer Conway run have looked like...would we see Tombstone early...who knows. A longer Conway run likely means that Len Wein (who got the job because he was room-mates with Conway) wouldn't have hopped on Spider-Man. Maybe Marv Wolfman comes in or not. Without Wolfman, no Black Cat.

So Gwen surviving changes not just the Spider-Man continuity, but the entire publication history.

[KangMiRae]

You can take a look at the Mexican(?) issues of The Amazing Spider-Man where they decided to keep Gwen Stacy alive and even married her with Peter. I think they kept this continuity for a while, so you can see what it'd look like.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You can take a look at the Mexican(?) issues of The Amazing Spider-Man where they decided to keep Gwen Stacy alive and even married her with Peter. I think they kept this continuity for a while, so you can see what it'd look like.

The Mexican Spider-Man thing has been totally debunked:



The stuff there was just dream sequences and it was appended as filler stuff and had nothing to do with Gwen living or dying.

The version of Gwen they feature is Roy Thomas' Gwen from the Savage Land stories where was a bikini model.

[Spider-Tiger]

Conway would have surely broken them up one way or another to make room for Mary Jane. Then, it's possible that one of the other writers would have attempted to reignite the relationship in some capacity like Wolfman did with Betty.

Stan was ultimately responsible for Peter-MJ becoming the main ship of the Spider-Man universe. He used MJ as the main love interest in his strip which eventually led to them being married in 1987. But before Conway, he was pushing Gwen as the It girl of the series. So i do wonder: Would Stan have given up on Gwen had she not been killed?

[Chubistian]

Peter would have sold his polygamous marriage to Mephisto to save aunt May's life

[Inversed]

Conway would have surely broken them up one way or another to make room for Mary Jane. Then, it's possible that one of the other writers would have attempted to reignite the relationship in some capacity like Wolfman did with Betty.

Stan was ultimately responsible for Peter-MJ becoming the main ship of the Spider-Man universe. He used MJ as the main love interest in his strip which eventually led to them being married in 1987. But before Conway, he was pushing Gwen as the It girl of the series. So i do wonder: Would Stan have given up on Gwen had she not been killed?

This is my main thing. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what WE think would have definitively happened based on select choices from writers, because a new writer could come in and go in a different direction. Things can change so drastically. And I think because Gwen is such a "flexible" character, that just makes her more appealing to writers to put their own stamp with her, and continue to use her romantically or platonically.

[Lee]

There'd be no clone saga(s), for one thing. No Spider-Gwen either.

Conway would have surely broken them up one way or another to make room for Mary Jane. Then, it's possible that one of the other writers would have attempted to reignite the relationship in some capacity like Wolfman did with Betty.

Stan was ultimately responsible for Peter-MJ becoming the main ship of the Spider-Man universe. He used MJ as the main love interest in his strip which eventually led to them being married in 1987. But before Conway, he was pushing Gwen as the It girl of the series. So i do wonder: Would Stan have given up on Gwen had she not been killed?

I think Stan would have almost certainly used both Gwen and Mary Jane in the comic strip, if she hadn't been killed off. Gwen as the romantic lead, and Mary Jane as the rival. There's a strong chance Peter and Gwen would have gotten married instead.

[witchboy]

Remember that Gerry Conway was writing ASM. He said that the plan was hatched by Romita Sr. (at the time virtually the editor of the Spider-man titles, though that position wasn't solidified then) to kill a major character. Conway nominated Gwen because she was disposable but also emotionally impactful.

Conway said that if there was no plan to kill off a character, he would have broken Peter and Gwen up and have him move on with Mary Jane.

In this altered state, Gwen Stacy would lose a lot of her sheen. She would be seen as Betty Brant 2.0, i.e. another relationship that didn't work out, and not as Peter's greatest love. Gwen got that status because she died before she and Peter broke up.

Without Gwen's death and the Clone Saga, it's likely that Gerry Conway's run would have lasted longer. Conway said that the backlash to Gwen's death and the death threats he received (in addition to issues with how Lee handled that) made him leave Spider-Man early. Without that, I think Conway would have continued longer. What would a longer Conway run have looked like...would we see Tombstone early...who knows. A longer Conway run likely means that Len Wein (who got the job because he was room-mates with Conway) wouldn't have hopped on Spider-Man. Maybe Marv Wolfman comes in or not. Without Wolfman, no Black Cat.

So Gwen surviving changes not just the Spider-Man continuity, but the entire publication history.

This. All of this.
Gwen at the time was not that interesting (to me). Her personality was inconsistent. She was Liz 2.0 for awhile - I really wonder why they bothered to write out Liz if they were going to replace her with someone just like her. And then like someone just flicked a switch, Gwen became this clingy nice girl. MJ was always more interesting.
I can see Gwen and Peter breaking up because of his Spidey secret.
Gwen became a lot more interesting in death than she ever was in life. I think it worked out for the best the way it happened, although I am appalled that Conway got death threats, I didn't know that.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I think it worked out for the best the way it happened, although I am appalled that Conway got death threats, I didn't know that.

Marvel actually printed those letters on page back in the day. They put death threats in the actual letter's columns and so on. This was Pre-John Lennon's assassination where people didn't think fans would outright murder creators.

The real low point for Conway was Stan Lee's conduct. Stan Lee knew about Gwen's death and he basically shrugged and said why not. When the backlash happened, Lee tried to pass the buck on to Conway and say that he knew nothing and so on, and Conway felt that Lee was putting his own reputation and fondness for being liked over loyalty to his writer. Roy Thomas who was Lee's friend was appalled at this and he put out a public letter shaming Lee and telling everyone that Lee knew the story and approved it.

As per Sean Howe, Conway never forgave Lee for that, although professionally they kept working and Conway speaks well of Lee after that.