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  1. #76
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    you mean horns of the rhino, as in the only reason why the story is remembered today is because of mary jane's iconic introduction? lol lol lol
    Mary Jane's iconic introduction was in The Birth of a Super-Hero (ASM #42), not in Horns of the Rhino (ASM #41)
    Last edited by Chubistian; 09-10-2019 at 12:05 PM.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    Mary Jane's iconic introduction was in The Birth of a Super-Hero (ASM #42), not in Horns of the Rhino (ASM #41)
    Some lists do consider ASM #41-43 to be one big story.

    https://www.cbr.com/50-greatest-spid...s-master-list/

    Granted, the story is more than just the one moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    She and Peter aren't in a relationship (yet) in that issue.



    Don't think the Six-Armed Saga has held up all that well. All it amounted to was an attempt by Roy Thomas to bring Morbius into the Marvel Universe. I certainly don't see it showing up in more recent assessments.
    But Gwen remains a love interest even when she isn't in a relationship with Peter.

  3. #78
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Some lists do consider ASM #41-43 to be one big story.

    https://www.cbr.com/50-greatest-spid...s-master-list/

    Granted, the story is more than just the one moment.
    I didn't know that but I think it's fine to consider it one story, and I also agree that it's more than just one moment that made it special. The introduction of The Rhino is important, not just because of his relevance as a villain, but also because he is the first rogue introduced by John Romita Sr in ASM. Also, it was part of the selection of stories taken by Loeb to do Spider-Man Blue, while the plot concerning John Jameson was disposed of
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  4. #79
    Spectacular Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Remember that Gerry Conway was writing ASM. He said that the plan was hatched by Romita Sr. (at the time virtually the editor of the Spider-man titles, though that position wasn't solidified then) to kill a major character. Conway nominated Gwen because she was disposable but also emotionally impactful.

    Conway said that if there was no plan to kill off a character, he would have broken Peter and Gwen up and have him move on with Mary Jane.

    In this altered state, Gwen Stacy would lose a lot of her sheen. She would be seen as Betty Brant 2.0, i.e. another relationship that didn't work out, and not as Peter's greatest love. Gwen got that status because she died before she and Peter broke up.

    Without Gwen's death and the Clone Saga, it's likely that Gerry Conway's run would have lasted longer. Conway said that the backlash to Gwen's death and the death threats he received (in addition to issues with how Lee handled that) made him leave Spider-Man early. Without that, I think Conway would have continued longer. What would a longer Conway run have looked like...would we see Tombstone early...who knows. A longer Conway run likely means that Len Wein (who got the job because he was room-mates with Conway) wouldn't have hopped on Spider-Man. Maybe Marv Wolfman comes in or not. Without Wolfman, no Black Cat.

    So Gwen surviving changes not just the Spider-Man continuity, but the entire publication history.
    This. All of this.
    Gwen at the time was not that interesting (to me). Her personality was inconsistent. She was Liz 2.0 for awhile - I really wonder why they bothered to write out Liz if they were going to replace her with someone just like her. And then like someone just flicked a switch, Gwen became this clingy nice girl. MJ was always more interesting.
    I can see Gwen and Peter breaking up because of his Spidey secret.
    Gwen became a lot more interesting in death than she ever was in life. I think it worked out for the best the way it happened, although I am appalled that Conway got death threats, I didn't know that.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    I think it worked out for the best the way it happened, although I am appalled that Conway got death threats, I didn't know that.
    Marvel actually printed those letters on page back in the day. They put death threats in the actual letter's columns and so on. This was Pre-John Lennon's assassination where people didn't think fans would outright murder creators.

    The real low point for Conway was Stan Lee's conduct. Stan Lee knew about Gwen's death and he basically shrugged and said why not. When the backlash happened, Lee tried to pass the buck on to Conway and say that he knew nothing and so on, and Conway felt that Lee was putting his own reputation and fondness for being liked over loyalty to his writer. Roy Thomas who was Lee's friend was appalled at this and he put out a public letter shaming Lee and telling everyone that Lee knew the story and approved it.

    As per Sean Howe, Conway never forgave Lee for that, although professionally they kept working and Conway speaks well of Lee after that.

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