View Poll Results: Do you like bendis taking legion from clark

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  • Love it

    4 3.81%
  • ok with it

    52 49.52%
  • Hate it

    49 46.67%
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  1. #61
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Even if you have United Planets as a fragile work in progress, you are married to that status quo, until someone comes along and dismantles it. And it will get dismantled or forgotten.
    That doesn't make any sense, you're not married to any status quo if the thing in question is able to fall apart anytime between now and the 31st century. As far as wide berths go, it doesn't actually get wider.

    And to be frank, you can doom and gloom foretell about literally any new idea or character. So then what? Do writers just stop trying to innovate and add because some people feel the way you seem to? No. That's absurd. That sort of thinking makes ideas like Damian and Jon basically impossible. The writers put in the work, tell their stories and hope they leave something interesting enough for others to come on and do something with when they're gone. For every gone and forgotten concept there are just as many if not more ideas that have become staples in the DCU. You can't possibly know with absolute certainty what will become of this.

    I mean, hell, the dang thing hasn't even had an issue to itself yet for goodness sake.
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  2. #62
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I'll be curious to see how Orlando's fairly recent Electric Warriors factors into Millennium and if the Kamandi and that future plays out in any way with the Legion and the human-level sentience of some other species.

    As far as I recall, the Legion side-stepped all of that in their most recent storytelling.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    That doesn't make any sense, you're not married to any status quo if the thing in question is able to fall apart anytime between now and the 31st century. As far as wide berths go, it doesn't actually get wider.

    And to be frank, you can doom and gloom foretell about literally any new idea or character. So then what? Do writers just stop trying to innovate and add because some people feel the way you seem to? No. That's absurd. That sort of thinking makes ideas like Damian and Jon basically impossible. The writers put in the work, tell their stories and hope they leave something interesting enough for others to come on and do something with when they're gone. For every gone and forgotten concept there are just as many if not more ideas that have become staples in the DCU. You can't possibly know with absolute certainty what will become of this.

    I mean, hell, the dang thing hasn't even had an issue to itself yet for goodness sake.
    The problem isn't whether the UP lasts, as much as if the UP lasts until the 31st Century. If the Legion is in the 5th attempt at a working UP then I doubt Jon is anymore than a footnote in history. He's the creator of the UP even less than Woodrow Wilson is the founder of the UN. Even more so if Jon's UP falls apart after a handful of years.

    And this UP could be as much of an albatross as the Green Lanterns were to the original Legion. We had the Legion meet the Guardians and the Corps in 1980-something. At the time the Corps were in no danger in the DCU-present. So tying Universon and Rond Vidar to an existing Corps didn't seem an issue. Then we lost the Guardians in Crisis. Well, maybe the ones in the Legion had come back or were the kids of those Guardians. Then we lost ~99% of the Corps . Then restored the Corps. Then Emerald Twilight. Then Rebirth. None of those were bad for the present stories, but it left stuff set up based on the time between now and the 30th murky.

    What exactly is the backstory for Rond Vidar's ring between now and then?

    Did the Guardians come back after they died (this time)? If so when? Does the Legion writer assume that it is temporary and doesn't need to be addressed or that Legion should addressit and hope it doesn't tie the GL team's creative hands.

    If Rond's ring has been shown with the yellow weakness and 24 hour charge- how does that work Post-Rebirth?

    Understand, none of the above were massive problems since by-and-large Rond was a minor character. But they were still problems created by tying the 30th century to a concept set in the 20th. And realize it will be worse with every concept Bendis sets up in Millenium as bedrock for the Legion (like UP history) which is then reworked in "modern" books and needs to be retconned or reworked for the Legion.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    There's no option that's a step further than hate it, so we'll go with hate it. But yeah, easily the worst idea Bendis has had thus far, and it unfortunately happened to be a big one.

    That the connection hasn't been used much in a long time is just evidence of DC's failing with it, as opposed to a justification to go backwards again after some writers in the past decade tried to fix the first time they had this bad idea.
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  5. #65

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    We've hit 50.
    So only two people, from this site actually love this development.
    23 people are ok with it And one person being more on the negative.
    22 people hate it. 2 people more than hate this development.

  6. #66
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I'm hesitant to say I'm okay with it only because I was never a big Legion fan to begin with and don't really care either way... but after hearing some arguments for and against, I'm gonna go ahead and side with those against it for now. Mostly because I sympathize with them.

    I know how it feels to have the history of a beloved team suddenly (and unnecessarily) dismantled just to make room for a new generation (*cough*TeenTitans*cough*). It's not a good feeling and really only succeeds in fostering resentment towards the newbies. So even if this Legion isn't the same one Clark knew, it'd still be nice if he at least remembered his.
    Last edited by Blue22; 09-03-2019 at 04:46 AM.

  7. #67
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    The big issues with DC are the past and the future. The problem however is the past is more or less set narratively speaking, save for time travel shenanigans issues coming out cant effect it all too much. Stuff in the future however CAN be effected by issues coming out as we see with the GL stuff mentioned above.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    It doesn't really matter, does it? No changes to the Legion really last.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    It doesn't really matter, does it? No changes to the Legion really last.
    That is the sad part..

    To me idea seems mainly lame, but a wee bit irritating because it follows well tried DC formula of taking something away from Superman to big up another character. What tolerant people Superman fans are, otherwise sales would have totally collapsed by now.

    I honestly think story telling possibilities in keeping Clark as Legions inspiration...and his lad having to go through difficult period “living up to the legend”..were richer than the chosen line.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    That is the sad part..

    To me idea seems mainly lame, but a wee bit irritating because it follows well tried DC formula of taking something away from Superman to big up another character. What tolerant people Superman fans are, otherwise sales would have totally collapsed by now.

    I honestly think story telling possibilities in keeping Clark as Legions inspiration...and his lad having to go through difficult period “living up to the legend”..were richer than the chosen line.
    Like deku and all might. Man! That would have been much better.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    It doesn't matter, when this Bendis nightmare run is over, Geoff Johns will have to do some kind of soft reboot to fix all this anyway lol.
    I don't think Johns is coming back anytime soon if ever.
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  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    The question is, is that Bendis's intention or has he written the mythos into a corner?
    It depends largely on how well it sells, what kind of potential narratives Bendis illustrates with it, and how DC editorial and talent feel about it.

    The marriage was a pretty big change too. Or rather, Clark and Lois getting serious, dating exclusively, and Clark revealing his identity to Lois were all major changes. And generally, outside the New52 years, DC has run with that new status quo. Clark as the president of earth might stick in a similar way or it might get dropped as soon as Bendis leaves, depending on how things go. But these properties *do* move forward. These mythologies *do* grow.....it just takes decades, and 99% of the changes don't last.....but there *is* growth and development. Maybe this "earth Prez" thing will be one of the things that stick....maybe it won't. No way to tell until it happens.

    The Legion is rarely more than a footnote, so that's a non-issue. And being the founder of the UP is likewise going to be something that might get name-dropped on occasion, but doesn't really have any meat to it. So both are non-factors as far as the wider continuity goes.

    When DC eventually reboots again.....yeah, all that stuff, the stuff that happens when Clark's a little older, will all be taken out. That's not the question, the real question is whether these are story beats that DC will repeat/keep in the new continuity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I bleed red, yellow, and blue, you know this, but I think this sentiment, as its been presented so far, is more important than what amounts to a trophy and a pat on the back for Clark.

    Now don't get it twisted, I'm one of those Superman fans that has to have him rocking some serious power relative to the universe around him, I need him to be more than just another cape on a few levels, and stuff like that, but I'm not feeling the issue here with this.
    Brother, you never have to justify your fandom. Not to me or anyone. And, for real, no one here would question that anyway. Me especially, considering all the conversations we've had about this character.

    And yeah, odds are what we're getting will outweigh what we're losing (or what we never had that's seemingly being given to Jon). I'm just a cranky old bastard and I'm sick of seeing Clark lose elements of his IP. That's all this is. It's not Bendis and the story he's telling, it's just me being sick and tired of seeing Clark lose elements of his IP. And even then, I recognize that this is a far "better" loss than usual; the Legion is staying in the family and Bendis' argument for why he's doing it this way is logical and makes sense.
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  13. #73
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    That is the sad part..

    To me idea seems mainly lame, but a wee bit irritating because it follows well tried DC formula of taking something away from Superman to big up another character. What tolerant people Superman fans are, otherwise sales would have totally collapsed by now.

    I honestly think story telling possibilities in keeping Clark as Legions inspiration...and his lad having to go through difficult period “living up to the legend”..were richer than the chosen line.
    Boom! Head shot. That sounds infinitely better. Jon has no credentials, legends or heroic feats. He only has his familial ties to his famous father.

    This just wreaks if getting Jon out of the spot light, because they’ve run out of things for the super son to do in the present. Stick him with the oft-forgotten Legion of Superheroes. Who miss nearly every big event, and only cross over with the super-line once in a blue moon. And you have an out of sight, out of mind recipe. I suspect Jon won’t be returning to the present should Legion sales tank. He’ll join the Legion in limbo, until the next reboot.

  14. #74
    Long Live the Legion! Paul Newell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super_kon View Post
    If I’m correct, it’s now:
    Clark: original legion
    Kon-El: Zero hour Legion
    Kara: Threeboot legion
    Jon: Rebirth Legion?
    That's correct. Though I'd add that Clark was involved with both the original and Retroboot.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    That doesn't make any sense, you're not married to any status quo if the thing in question is able to fall apart anytime between now and the 31st century. As far as wide berths go, it doesn't actually get wider.

    And to be frank, you can doom and gloom foretell about literally any new idea or character. So then what? Do writers just stop trying to innovate and add because some people feel the way you seem to? No. That's absurd. That sort of thinking makes ideas like Damian and Jon basically impossible. The writers put in the work, tell their stories and hope they leave something interesting enough for others to come on and do something with when they're gone. For every gone and forgotten concept there are just as many if not more ideas that have become staples in the DCU. You can't possibly know with absolute certainty what will become of this.

    I mean, hell, the dang thing hasn't even had an issue to itself yet for goodness sake.
    Well, first off, characters are entirely different issue. Characters tend to develop fan bases. Status quos, not as much (though there are of course exceptions). And someone like Damian was built with a reset button. Morrison always intended to kill him off. New characters also don't usually effect the entire universe. They play a role in one character's mythos. Damian doesn't stand in the way of other writers telling particular stories with Hawkman or whoever.

    This United Planets thing is very different. It affects the entire DC Universe. It impacts the Hawk mythos, it impacts the Lantern mythos, basically any cosmic character. So no, this is very different than any new idea or character. This is bigger and more ambitious, and as a result it doesn't seem sustainable in the way that, say, Jimmy Olson being a character is.

    And yes, if Bendis writes the future of the United Planets in Millennium (even it's ups and downs) then that creates a hard narrative and locks in the status quo he's setting here, regardless of whether it is perfect or runs into trouble. That's far from a wide birth and that narrative can only exist to be contradicted.
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