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  1. #91
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think this is a symptom of the overall.....bleaching.....and re-structuring the DCU got around COIE. A whole lot of stuff got pulled back, trimmed, tightened up.....IP's tend to stick closer to their main themes now, and do fewer stories that delve into unusual territory. And in this purge, the Flash franchise held onto the concept. Since DC's treated like a pantheon where each major hero is the "god" of their respective domains and subgenres, Flash ended up being the time travel guy because he was the only one still doing it on a semi-consistent basis.
    Excellent way of putting it.

    This is why all the IPs seem so less...alive than they used to, IMO. I like my DC universe a little more strange and fantastical, where almost anything can happen. I want Batman to go outer space and deal with 5th dimensional imps in his own book instead of just crime stories with costumed psychopaths. And Wonder Woman being mostly Greek myth related can get tiresome.

    Superman just seems like he's stuck with Lex and Krypton related crap, and of course they keep cutting away the Legion from him.

  2. #92
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    But just the same, DC gets enough success from those stories to warrant these adaptations. Like Hush and indirectly YJ. They get a decent amount of success simply rehashing that same old Death story and I guess the easy business keeps them in a holding pattern. Maybe gunshy on doing something too out there.

    I think what most people want in these kinds of stories anyway is a limited scope. Quick and easily digested. And whenever you see them, including stories written by actual comic writers, they're nerfed. Even Spider-Man would get his strength cut in half. A regular guy could probably tag Superman if he flung something from behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Eh, Clark's the poster child for "too powerful!" complaints, even when he's not actually all that powerful. People were still bitching about this back in early post-Crisis when Clark's powers had been cut in half and he'd struggle to lift the Planet globe and other heroes like Shazam and Diana were said to be just as strong as he was
    This sounds like the cartoon, too. Goes to show how good the Adventures comic was at making that same power level look traditional.
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  3. #93
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Eh, Clark's the poster child for "too powerful!" complaints, even when he's not actually all that powerful. .
    No, Superman is poster child for being "too powerful" in high profile setting. Martian Manhunter or variety of others might be in the same category but Superman is OP in the biggest stage, stories and events. Everyone remembers Superman vs Darkseid in Justice League cartoon. Barely anyone talks about Flash working over Brainiac/Luther



    And look who got the moment after the moment. I think Superman fans are being a tad too sensitive about this it is gift and curse. What makes superman great is also what makes Superman get criticized. It is not a matter of him losing either he is been built up so much that most people are trained to go "bullshit" when he loses. That is where him being power down comes into play you are trained to see people with guns beat flash,It is not hard to imagine flash losing. We have Superman versus Doomsday, Darkseid, Steppenwolf, Zod ingrained in our heads. So when finally superman loses isn't wow Superman loss the fight, it is Superman shouldn't have loss that or how did he lose that it didn't make sense.

    I agree with general premise of thread, Fans trick sometimes themselves into thinking that bigger is better. You can watch a strong man competition on television and people lifting Atlas stones and it is amazing, so under the context of that lifting semitrailer, Aircraft carrier or Asteroid is amazing. In visual presentation Flash moving at Mach Speed and Lightspeed is the almost same thing. The only thing upping the power level does sometimes is change what conceptually can beat you meaning simply meaning Dragonball Z has up itself into God and Planetary tier but the fights are exactly the same looking.Something like Mach speed is faster than most human can react too, So nothing really changes in presentation of the story but difference between Lightspeed and Mach speed is that we have normal missile and planes that can go that fast. Conceptually it is easier to imagine him being challenged at the slower speed. As mentioned before people are well aware of his top end abilities so they know when he is underperforming in a story to make it a seem like a challenge.

    PS-Fanbase(and pop culture) and the image they put out of him plays a large for the people who don't read. Like I said Gift and the Curse ,He is probably first hero someone thinks of when they hear the word Superhero but the image of power might work too well at times. Superman fans will argue when you say he is too powerful then next thread if you say another hero is more powerful they will argue that he is more powerful than them.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-29-2019 at 03:56 AM.

  4. #94
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    No, Superman is poster child for being "too powerful" in high profile setting. Martian Manhunter or variety of others might be in the same category but Superman is OP in the biggest stage, stories and events. Everyone remembers Superman vs Darkseid in Justice League cartoon. Barely anyone talks about Flash working over Brainiac/Luther



    And look who got the moment after the moment. I think Superman fans are being a tad too sensitive about this it is gift and curse. What makes superman great is also what makes Superman get criticized. It is not a matter of him losing either he is been built up so much that most people are trained to go "bullshit" when he loses. That is where him being power down comes into play you are trained to see people with guns beat flash,It is not hard to imagine flash losing. We have Superman versus Doomsday, Darkseid, Steppenwolf, Zod ingrained in our heads. So when finally superman loses isn't wow Superman loss the fight, it is Superman shouldn't have loss that or how did he lose that it didn't make sense.

    I agree with general premise of thread, Fans trick sometimes themselves into thinking that bigger is better. You can watch a strong man competition on television and people lifting Atlas stones and it is amazing, so under the context of that lifting semitrailer, Aircraft carrier or Asteroid is amazing. In visual presentation Flash moving at Mach Speed and Lightspeed is the almost same thing. The only thing upping the power level does sometimes is change what conceptually can beat you meaning simply meaning Dragonball Z has up itself into God and Planetary tier but the fights are exactly the same looking.Something like Mach speed is faster than most human can react too, So nothing really changes in presentation of the story but difference between Lightspeed and Mach speed is that we have normal missile and planes that can go that fast. Conceptually it is easier to imagine him being challenged at the slower speed. As mentioned before people are well aware of his top end abilities so they know when he is underperforming in a story to make it a seem like a challenge.

    PS-Fanbase(and pop culture) and the image they put out of him plays a large for the people who don't read. Like I said Gift and the Curse ,He is probably first hero someone thinks of when they hear the word Superhero but the image of power might work too well at times. Superman fans will argue when you say he is too powerful then next thread if you say another hero is more powerful they will argue that he is more powerful than them.
    Are you kidding me? Wally beating brainlex was the biggest highlight of the show. It was the first time speed force was introduced in another medium. Loads of people talk about it. That moment afterwards was just clark's arc from justice lords. Luther wasn't even bonded with Brainiac then. He was basically human.

  5. #95
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    With today tech, bigger planes, building, ships and villains being more powerful!! Superman needs a upgrade in power!! Most of his enemies are more powerful than he is now!! He serve more as a punching bag in his comics now !!!! I wouldn't think there would be a lot of complaining about Superman being to powerful now!! Those that think superman is to powerful should be happy, they can enjoy watching him get the crap beat out of him regularly now!!
    Last edited by lotchj; 10-02-2019 at 11:19 PM.

  6. #96
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Superman should never have gone beyond Toon-YJ-Superboy's levels of power.
    Flying is pretty iconic for him second only to his strength. I really think he needs that power along with his strength. I don’t mind doing more Golden Age power leveled stories with him (I loved Morrison and Pak’s Action Comics runs), but I’m not really sure whether permanently reducing his power levels would help writing quality. Truth was pretty poorly written after all.

  7. #97
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Flying is pretty iconic for him second only to his strength. I really think he needs that power along with his strength. I don’t mind doing more Golden Age power leveled stories with him (I loved Morrison and Pak’s Action Comics runs), but I’m not really sure whether permanently reducing his power levels would help writing quality. Truth was pretty poorly written after all.
    Flying isn't that iconic enough if everyone is doing it. I love clark doing agile acrobatic **** mid air while jumping.him running and Jumpin were one of the best things in golden age.
    I suppose, maybe when he get more powerful he can get flight. If you are locking him at level(which i hate), then jumping goldenage guy was pretty awesome and dynamic. I mean, "the man of action" should have cool action posses.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Flying isn't that iconic enough if everyone is doing it. I love clark doing agile acrobatic **** mid air while jumping.him running and Jumpin were one of the best things in golden age.
    I suppose, maybe when he get more powerful he can get flight. If you are locking him at level(which i hate), then jumping goldenage guy was pretty awesome and dynamic. I mean, "the man of action" should have cool action posses.
    If you like seeing heroes jumping long distances, the hulk does that!! Superman fly!!

  9. #99
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Flying isn't that iconic enough if everyone is doing it. I love clark doing agile acrobatic **** mid air while jumping.him running and Jumpin were one of the best things in golden age.
    I suppose, maybe when he get more powerful he can get flight. If you are locking him at level(which i hate), then jumping goldenage guy was pretty awesome and dynamic. I mean, "the man of action" should have cool action posses.

    Superman's flying is not iconic? Ask anyone on the street what superhero can fly and most will say Superman. Strongest? Also Superman.

  10. #100
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotchj View Post
    If you like seeing heroes jumping long distances, the hulk does that!! Superman fly!!
    Does hulk jump like this?

    hulk just jumps. Superman was agile. He was acrobatic like spidey or dick.
    Superman ain't the only one who does it. Everyone does it. Tell me another guy that is known for jumping other than hulk.flight isn't dynamic. It is not that cool to look at. It's boring when done uninspired . My guy is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. Besides, it was basically added to superman for two reasons only
    1)decreasing the work for animators
    2)shazam.
    Shazam always had flight. Superman didn't.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-06-2019 at 10:02 PM.

  11. #101
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Superman's flying is not iconic? Ask anyone on the street what superhero can fly and most will say Superman. Strongest? Also Superman.
    I said when everyone is doing it. Everyone flys. It is uninspiring, now. It was revolutionary when it started(cough! Cough! Stolen from shazam) . Max fleischer made it great. Nobody else has made it that great. In tas it was blah!
    And sure, the pose is definitely iconic. But, that doesn’t require flight. Have you asked them if it is entertaining. The standard flight will also be blah! Compared to someone like spiderman's dynamic movements and web swinging.


    Here, he is only leaping.
    I wouldn't mind flight when his powerlevel goes up. But, it has to have better movements like fleischer did. It can't be just a boring pose and you are up in the sky. That's blah!

    This is was cool!
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-04-2019 at 08:12 PM.

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    I think this is an interesting topic to discuss, but I don't think it's a controversial one. Everyone has their own preference for Superman's power level because a lot of people contend that he is too powerful to tell good stories with. I don't necessarily think that's true, but it is fair to say that many of Superman's rogues are huge threats to not just him but the entire planet.

  13. #103
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Besides, it was basically added to superman for two reasons only
    1)decreasing the work for animators
    2)shazam.
    Shazam always had flight. Superman didn't.

    About that: Fawcett's Captain Marvel was just as ground- bound as Superman when he debuted in Whiz Comics #2. He didn't get flight until a few issues later in 1940.

    Also, technically: Superman flew first. Just not in the comic book medium. In his radio show (which had a MUCH bigger audience than the comic books), Supes was described as legit flying (not leaping) as early as Feb 1940. BEFORE Captain Marvel did in his own comic.

    And BOTH of those guys stole the flying bit from Timely's Sub-Mariner, the first flying hero since 1939's Marvel Comics #1.

  14. #104
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    About that: Fawcett's Captain Marvel was just as ground- bound as Superman when he debuted in Whiz Comics #2. He didn't get flight until a few issues later in 1940.

    Also, technically: Superman flew first. Just not in the comic book medium. In his radio show (which had a MUCH bigger audience than the comic books), Supes was described as legit flying (not leaping) as early as Feb 1940. BEFORE Captain Marvel did in his own comic.

    And BOTH of those guys stole the flying bit from Timely's Sub-Mariner, the first flying hero since 1939's Marvel Comics #1.
    My point is the competition with shazam is what lead to his higher powerlevels and flight
    Yeah! Forgot about the sub mariner. Didn't the human torch also have the flight?

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Superman's biggest challenge is fitting in and being accepted by ordinary people for who he is as a person without factoring in all of his abilities. Kryptonite just makes his fights more interesting.

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