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  1. #1
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    Default Question about the "NEW" Generation of Heroes

    Hello,

    I have some questions about the "NEW" Generation of Heroes.
    Ok I havent read much about the "NEW" Generation, but I would like to hear your opinions and maybe you have some background Information why they are created.

    -Wallace West: I dont really understand the character. I liked his father, because he had a cool look and it was a cool take to have an Anti-Hero-Reverse-Flash AND he was one of the Villains who I really had empathy for.
    But I just dont understand Wallace...Is he based on the TV Series Kid Flash?
    We already had Bart as Kid Flash and we had Wally West as Kid Flash...I liked the "old" Version of him better with the SILVER/RED Costume..
    I personally would have liked more if he would have got another Code-Name and his own colors and a more unique look.
    Like green/yellow or so and dreadlocks or so, I find the actual look to simple and the Kid Flash name and Costume is more connected with Wally and Bart, so it feels strange for me to have another Person using it.

    -Lucas Fox: Havent read much of him, but he is a genius and good fighter...OK...We already have Tim,Dick,Bruce,Jason,Damian....
    I like more Cassandra Cain,Jean Paul,Stephanie,Barbara and Harper who arent so perfect and have a more interesting background story.

    -Duke Thomas: There were Jokes also inside Comic Books comparing him to Robin and I have to say that I also dont really understand the character.

    -Kenan Kong: I liked the early version better,but he is to powerful for me....I mean he ISNT blood related to Superman etc. so I find his power levels to exagerated and he also seems to have less weaknesses than Kryptonians which makes him to EXTREMELY overpowered...


    Crush instead is one of the few characters who I really like...

  2. #2
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    Wallace West was afaik supposed to be the new 52 incarnation of Wally (and predates afiak the TV show version), fans didn't liked that and wanted the classic Wally back, which DC did with Rebirth, thats why we have two Wallys now.

    I think Duke was created to be the new Robin, after Damians death. Damian was to popular to stay dead, and so they are trying to find something else to do with him.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Hello,

    I have some questions about the "NEW" Generation of Heroes.
    Ok I havent read much about the "NEW" Generation, but I would like to hear your opinions and maybe you have some background Information why they are created.

    -Wallace West: I dont really understand the character. I liked his father, because he had a cool look and it was a cool take to have an Anti-Hero-Reverse-Flash AND he was one of the Villains who I really had empathy for.
    But I just dont understand Wallace...Is he based on the TV Series Kid Flash?
    We already had Bart as Kid Flash and we had Wally West as Kid Flash...I liked the "old" Version of him better with the SILVER/RED Costume..
    I personally would have liked more if he would have got another Code-Name and his own colors and a more unique look.
    Like green/yellow or so and dreadlocks or so, I find the actual look to simple and the Kid Flash name and Costume is more connected with Wally and Bart, so it feels strange for me to have another Person using it.

    -Lucas Fox: Havent read much of him, but he is a genius and good fighter...OK...We already have Tim,Dick,Bruce,Jason,Damian....
    I like more Cassandra Cain,Jean Paul,Stephanie,Barbara and Harper who arent so perfect and have a more interesting background story.

    -Duke Thomas: There were Jokes also inside Comic Books comparing him to Robin and I have to say that I also dont really understand the character.

    -Kenan Kong: I liked the early version better,but he is to powerful for me....I mean he ISNT blood related to Superman etc. so I find his power levels to exagerated and he also seems to have less weaknesses than Kryptonians which makes him to EXTREMELY overpowered...


    Crush instead is one of the few characters who I really like...

    You haven't read much about them but you already know you like other characters you have read and are familiar with better?

    Why they were created? All the New heroes you mention are visibly ethnic minorities. Aside from the obvious for story purposes they add much needed diversity to the various Franchises.

    I like most of the characters you mention and enjoy their stories. Kenan's title was one of the standout's of Rebirth.


    Luke Fox I'm not so keen on. He's Bland. David was more interesting and imo his character had more story potential.

  4. #4
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Hello,

    I have some questions about the "NEW" Generation of Heroes.
    Ok I havent read much about the "NEW" Generation, but I would like to hear your opinions and maybe you have some background Information why they are created.
    I'll try to answer them the best I can. Hang on!

    -Wallace West: I dont really understand the character. I liked his father, because he had a cool look and it was a cool take to have an Anti-Hero-Reverse-Flash AND he was one of the Villains who I really had empathy for.
    But I just dont understand Wallace...Is he based on the TV Series Kid Flash?
    We already had Bart as Kid Flash and we had Wally West as Kid Flash...I liked the "old" Version of him better with the SILVER/RED Costume..
    I personally would have liked more if he would have got another Code-Name and his own colors and a more unique look.
    Like green/yellow or so and dreadlocks or so, I find the actual look to simple and the Kid Flash name and Costume is more connected with Wally and Bart, so it feels strange for me to have another Person using it.
    OKAY, let's start with the hardest one.

    Wallace is not actually based on TV Wally, no. What happens here is sort of clusterfuck:

    OgWally West was sidelined and editorially mandated out of all books after Flash: Rebirth, back in 2009. This was far from a popular move by DC. When the New52 rolled out, Dan Didio doubled his bet and erased him from existence. He became the most requested character for a return (and is still a symbol of DC's mismanagements, as were Cass Cain and Steph Brown before him, but worse). Jump a few years and the TV show producers decided to do Wally. Dan Didio saw a shot at synergy and a way to silence Wally fandom all at the same time, and decided to reboot the character of Wally West, into the character we now know as Wallace. The reception was one of the biggest shitshoiws I've seen (later, there would be HiC) since Hal Jordan's turn into Parallax. Some fans were angry that Wally was now black (not me), some were angry that he was demoted top a 12 year old Kid Flash (very much me) and some were really angry at what they perceived as one hell of a racist stereotype in his origin (definitely me). This version of Wally in the comics basically failed to take off, and when DC was in some big trouble and decided to do "Rebirth", they brought the OgWally back. So now they had to find a way to separate the 2 characters, and it was established that they were cousins, that didn't know each other and were named after the same relative. This has been slightly modified at this point by Flash: Year One, so his revised origin - hopefully not that joke of a racist caricature - remains to be seen. So, the character exists because he was supposed to be Wally, and remains in comics because killing the only Flash lack guy would be even worse.

    -Lucas Fox: Havent read much of him, but he is a genius and good fighter...OK...We already have Tim,Dick,Bruce,Jason,Damian....
    I like more Cassandra Cain,Jean Paul,Stephanie,Barbara and Harper who arent so perfect and have a more interesting background story.
    BAck in the New52 that tried a Batman spin-off title starring David Zavimbe, previously introduced in Batman INC, as Batwing, the Batman of Africa. When the book failed, they decided to rework that identity to the Luke Fox persona in order to bring itr closer to the bat-family and keep the name alive.

    -Duke Thomas: There were Jokes also inside Comic Books comparing him to Robin and I have to say that I also dont really understand the character.
    I believe he was supposed to become Robin at some point - and Harper Row, Nightwing - but it didn't work out for whatever reason.

    -Kenan Kong: I liked the early version better,but he is to powerful for me....I mean he ISNT blood related to Superman etc. so I find his power levels to exagerated and he also seems to have less weaknesses than Kryptonians which makes him to EXTREMELY overpowered...
    Yeah, well, super-people tend to be, and the chinese have been making some pretty big leaps in their tech lately, so that's that.

    Crush instead is one of the few characters who I really like...
    Yeah, she's cool!
    Last edited by BohemiaDrinker; 09-01-2019 at 11:40 PM.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  5. #5
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    It seems that Luke Fox has anyway been sidelined, it doesn't seem that they will do much with him apart from infrequent cameos.

  6. #6
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    It seems that Luke Fox has anyway been sidelined, it doesn't seem that they will do much with him apart from infrequent cameos.
    Yeah, he became redundant. There's still a black bat-family member in Duke. Tim and Babs are both tech geniuses in their own ways (and so was Harper, but she was sidelined too) and everyone's fighting skills are crap when you have Cass back.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

    To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    You haven't read much about them but you already know you like other characters you have read and are familiar with better?

    Why they were created? All the New heroes you mention are visibly ethnic minorities. Aside from the obvious for story purposes they add much needed diversity to the various Franchises.

    I like most of the characters you mention and enjoy their stories. Kenan's title was one of the standout's of Rebirth.


    Luke Fox I'm not so keen on. He's Bland. David was more interesting and imo his character had more story potential.
    I read something about them and it wasnt really interesting so I stopped it:

    Especially Wallace...He is now the third person in the KID FLASH Costume...and Wally and Bart have a more unique personality than he has.
    Like I said if he would have his own colors,a more interesting look...he could be interesting.

    Luke Fox is to me like I said only another genius with martial arts skill and we already have plenty of them in the Bat-Family and that he comes from a rich family it makes him to "perfect" for me.
    Jason,Cassandra Cain,Harper,Stephanie...werent so perfect and more interesting to read.

  8. #8
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    Duke was created when Damian died and very obviously prepared to be the next Robin but then Damian came back, so Duke became a street Robin when Bruce was amnesia and Damian was out of town in a redemption mission. After Bruce and Damian came back, he stopped being Robin and got a new identity, then revealed to be a metahuman.

    Luke was initially brought in to test futuristic Batsuit, and he's more of a "hey look at how hot I am" jock type. I was actually surprised when they made him a tech genius in Rebirth when there's already so many. I kinda miss the initial portrayal because most of the Bat fam is already down to earth nerds it's actually a fresh take to have a proud jock in the family.

    Harper was conceived as a civilian point of view to Gotham who insisted she's not interested to be Robin or other costumed fighters, but when Dick was presumed dead, they wanted to make her Nightwing. Fans figured it out and flipped, so she became Bluebird instead. Then there was a massive backlash because she became the main character in a story that's supposed to be about Robin anniversary, not helped by the story portraying her the perfect Robin candidate, so by the end of the series, she was retired.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-02-2019 at 12:05 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Harper was conceived as a civilian point of view to Gotham who insisted she's not interested to be Robin or other costumed fighters, but when Dick was presumed dead, they wanted to make her Nightwing. Fans figured it out and flipped, so she became Bluebird instead. Then there was a massive backlash because she became the main character in a story that's supposed to be about Robin anniversary, not helped by the story portraying her the perfect Robin candidate, so by the end of the series, she was retired.
    Didnt know that about Harper....I LOVED her character...I knew that she is kind of retired now, but she was VERY interesting,unique...EVEN I ALWAYS found her costume ridiculous..I mean:
    YOU HAVE BLUE HAIRS!!! Villains only need to search for a girl with piercings and blue hairs...The Mask hasnt really a sense..

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Didnt know that about Harper....I LOVED her character...I knew that she is kind of retired now, but she was VERY interesting,unique...EVEN I ALWAYS found her costume ridiculous..I mean:
    YOU HAVE BLUE HAIRS!!! Villains only need to search for a girl with piercings and blue hairs...The Mask hasnt really a sense..
    I think she is a character that could have worked if they had kept her as a support character and didn't pushed her that hard. She seemed a more interesting addition to the Batfamily dynamic than Luke or Duke.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I think she is a character that could have worked if they had kept her as a support character and didn't pushed her that hard. She seemed a more interesting addition to the Batfamily dynamic than Luke or Duke.
    YES...she and CASSANDRA CAIN were ADORABLE....
    Seen the episode where the 2 went to the Ballet? She was really COOL as Cassandras friend.

  12. #12

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    Kenan wasn't Kryptonian but magic based so that could account for how powerful he was.

    Making Wally II another Kid Flash/Wally West was a mistake to me. He would have been better off with his own ID/gimmick.

    I don't mind Duke as the Signal. I just wished he had a proper miniseries or Snyder should have worked on a Duke Solo during Rebirth. His personality is a bit weak but he's a decent read

    Harper fell apart because of Batman and Robin Eternal. She was given a connection with the main villain Mother and made into the linchpin of the series. Granted that reveal would have been a big retcon in everyone's else origin so using Harper was the lesser of two evils.

    Luke Fox is fine but suffers from the same problem as the other new Bat characters at the start of the new 52- the bat-verse is pretty crowded and people were worried about their favorites getting in/being treated well.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 09-02-2019 at 11:50 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Luke Fox is fine
    With this many Bat-Characters "fine" is just not enough.

  14. #14

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    EDIT- Luke was a so-so replacement for David Zavimbe the previous Batwing. David was a former child soldier from an African nation so switching to Luke was a real tonal shift. It would've been different if they weren't following each other or even holding the same title.

    Alas, it was not meant to be.

    In comics, he's more Tony Stark but in the animated movies, he reminded me of War Machine. Adapting Superheavy the arc with Jim Gordon as a public Batman but using Luke instead would have been cool.

    Duke got a lot of flack for saying "robin doesn't need a batman" but I thought it was more tongue-in-cheek. I feel like the legacy character system needs an update so I'm cool with him being Signal over Robin VI or whatever.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 09-02-2019 at 01:55 PM.

  15. #15
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    Luke got derailed by Bat editorial because he was suppose to be the love interest of Babs in her book. The issue was EDITORIAL fell into a battle of power with Burnside Batgirl team. It's why they left and went to Image to do Motor Crush (formerly an ongoing and now OGN format). Luke was stepping away from the suit to run his own company (in Babs's book).

    Luke was bought in to bring Batwing to Gotham. That is all that was about.

    Duke started off an a little kid helping Batman and then appearing as Robin in Future End. After that he somehow got aged up for the Endgame run where his parents got gased by Joker.

    We then get We Are Robin that turned Duke into yet ANOTHER stereotypical black boy like Wally. Implying he was locked up, troubled kid and bounced from foster home to foster home. Mind you he did all this within WEEKS/MONTHS of his parents being gas.

    Rebirth comes around and pretty much IGNORES We Are Robin. And in Batman he gets crapped on and limited to one page cameos once you got past the first two volumes of Batman. Tom King shows ZERO interest in writing him.
    Batman & Signal tries to fix Duke but you can only do so much in 3 issues-that seem to be lip service.

    Wallace is a whole another issue by himself. Aside from Priest no one is really interested in making Wallace interesting.

    And that is where we are now.

    The classic issue for a lot of these guys is finding someone WILLING to write them. Along with a book to showcase them in. This is where you need a DC Showcase or OGN. Or backups in books.

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