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  1. #316
    Legend HowitzerJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    When Rudolph was selected the Steelers brass was very high on him. Claiming they felt he was the best QB in that class of 2018.

    A lot of Steeler fans are thinking Rothlisberger will retire in 2020 after his surgery. Because he debated playing in pain back a year or 2 ago. So this maybe what drives him to retire.
    He also signed an extension a few months ago in April. Obviously he could change his mind after what happened.

  2. #317
    Legend HowitzerJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    I keep seeing Rapistberger referred to as a future Hall of Famer should this be it for him but I don't see him getting in. Stat wise he's there but we also live in an era of inflated passing stats and we've seen how thats affected receivers who on stats alone should get in but aren't - Isaac Bruce for instance.

    I see a glut of QB's coming into eligibility soon all with massive stats so to me the dividing line will be whether your considered one of the greatest players at your position and Ben isn't even close. Looking at his peers Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers will all be obviously considered before him. He overlaps with Kurt Warner and Brett Favre for the early parts of his career and Patrick Mahomes now. And then there a few short year wonders like Cam Newton or long time solid QB's like Matt Ryan who don't have the rings but will put up comparable stats by the end of their careers. He's not even close to be considered a top 5 QB of his generation and there are few years you would even consider him a top 5 QB that year. And he's always going to get lumped with Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers due all being drafted together and they have similar stats and Eli has the rings to match. Despite the lack of rings Rivers is probably the best QB of the three but he plays for bad luck Chargers.

    Much like with Isaac Bruce I think the voters will end up rejecting him, Eli Manning, and Phillip Rivers barring River's somehow leading the Chargers to a superbowl. Eli has fallen off a cliff so I don't think there are any more titles in his future.
    I don't see why Ben wouldn't be inducted. He has two Super Bowl rings, and has largely been a top ten, sometimes top five quarterback in the NFL for 15 years.

  3. #318
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowitzerJoe View Post
    I don't see why Ben wouldn't be inducted. He has two Super Bowl rings, and has largely been a top ten, sometimes top five quarterback in the NFL for 15 years.
    Most QBs with 2 or more superbowl victories get in the hall when they are eligible, and I think all of them with 3 or more are already in except for the one who is still playing, and as such, ineligible.
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  4. #319
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowitzerJoe View Post
    The Dolphins trade Minkah Fitzpatrick to the Steelers for a 2020 1st round pick. Weird on the Steelers part. They just lost Big Ben, and that pick may go really high if the team lose a ton of more games. Would a safety really be the right direction to go if you have to rebuild? Guess they really think Mason is the future.
    I guess Pittsburgh put a premium on defense over a quarterback by trading for Fitzpatrick. I mean, when you think Steelers, you think defense, first and foremost.
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  5. #320
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    I gave last night's Jets-Browns game a pass, figuring it wouldn't be worth my time, and I was right after Cleveland bitchslapped their way to a 23-3 win, and from what I read this morning, the final score wasn't THAT close. Only two weeks in, and it's already looking like the Jets' season is done as their quarterback situation is a mess, Sam Darnold is out several weeks with mono, his relief Trevor Siemian was injured during the game, leaving third string Luke Falk to mop up. Predictably, a pundit, namely Michael Irvin wasted little time saying the Jets should call Colin Kaepernick to ride to the rescue, to which I say, fat chance. I suspect the Jets would sooner ask Joe Namath to suit up before they turn their lonely eyes to Kaepernick.
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  6. #321

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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    I gave last night's Jets-Browns game a pass, figuring it wouldn't be worth my time, and I was right after Cleveland bitchslapped their way to a 23-3 win, and from what I read this morning, the final score wasn't THAT close. Only two weeks in, and it's already looking like the Jets' season is done as their quarterback situation is a mess, Sam Darnold is out several weeks with mono, his relief Trevor Siemian was injured during the game, leaving third string Luke Falk to mop up. Predictably, a pundit, namely Michael Irvin wasted little time saying the Jets should call Colin Kaepernick to ride to the rescue, to which I say, fat chance. I suspect the Jets would sooner ask Joe Namath to suit up before they turn their lonely eyes to Kaepernick.
    Deadspin said the Jets' highlight was the graphic of Sam Darnold pointing heroically over the words, "OUT INDEFINITELY: MONONUCLEOSIS"

    I mean, I could argue the highlight was Trevor Simien's foot pointing the wrong way... but that's about it.

    Luke Falk actually went 20-25 passing, so maybe it's not going to be god-awful for the Jets this year. At least we know they have two games on their schedule against Miami to get free wins.
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  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Rothlisberger will go in. If say Joe Namath with worse career stats and 1 Super Bowl goes in then its pretty clear Rothlisberger will make it in.
    Namath did not have a worse career lol. Not even close.

  8. #323
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Namath did not have a worse career lol. Not even close.
    I think Ben will get in, but Namath was a transitional figure in NFL history. His victory in SB III led to the AFL/NFL merger.
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  9. #324
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Namath did not have a worse career lol. Not even close.
    Worse career stats ...

    Namath : 27,663 yards 173 TDs 220 Ints. QB Rating 65.5


    Ben Rothlisberger : 56,545 yards 363 TDs 191 Ints QB Rating 94.0


    That is their career numbers. Now of course Joe Namath played in a harder passing league , but lets not get carried away with Namath. As much as he was a folk hero for guaranteeing a Super Bowl victory , his seasons had him playing with bad knees and it effected his passing a lot. In fact of his entire Jets career he only had 2 seasons where he threw more TD's than Int's. His final season in New York was so bad (4 TD's compared to 16 Ints) it led him to be traded to the Rams where he went half a season on bad knees.

    I like Joe Namath sure. Guy is an icon. But if were saying Ben Rothlisberger's career numbers aren't special...well neither was Namath's with 1 Super Bowl win. He's in like Kenny Stabler etc.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Worse career stats ...

    Namath : 27,663 yards 173 TDs 220 Ints. QB Rating 65.5


    Ben Rothlisberger : 56,545 yards 363 TDs 191 Ints QB Rating 94.0


    That is their career numbers. Now of course Joe Namath played in a harder passing league , but lets not get carried away with Namath. As much as he was a folk hero for guaranteeing a Super Bowl victory , his seasons had him playing with bad knees and it effected his passing a lot. In fact of his entire Jets career he only had 2 seasons where he threw more TD's than Int's. His final season in New York was so bad (4 TD's compared to 16 Ints) it led him to be traded to the Rams where he went half a season on bad knees.

    I like Joe Namath sure. Guy is an icon. But if were saying Ben Rothlisberger's career numbers aren't special...well neither was Namath's with 1 Super Bowl win. He's in like Kenny Stabler etc.
    Sorry you walked into the trap I set

    Joe Namath

    -first QB in history to have 4000 yards
    -Super Bowl MVP (Ben never was because he played like trash with like a 20 or 30 passer rating in one Super Bowl)
    -Second Team All Pro in the NFL (Ben was never an All Pro)
    -First Team All NFL (Ben was never an All Pro Equivalent)
    - 3x Second Team All AFL (same as above applies for Ben)
    -2x AFL MVP (I don’t think Ben ever got an MVP vote)
    -AFL Rookie of the Year (Ben actually matches this)
    -2x AFL pleasing yards leader and 1x NFL passing yards leader (Ben is only a 2x leader)
    -AFL All Time Team (only two QB’s listed, him and Dawson who you are aware of, they were unanimously conserved the best QB’s in their league, Ben was never close to an All Decade Team)

    Ben has better numbers in a totally different era where currently Eli and Rivers who were both in his draft classare top 10 and guys like Stanford, Ryan will eventually make it there. Meanwhile guys like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and Favre who all overlapped careers with Ben will be top 10. So literally every decent QB in his era will have top 10 stats. That’s called statistical inflation.

    Namath was a unanimous top 5 of his era along with Dawson, Unitas, and Namath. Ben was always outshined by guys like Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Warner, even guys like Luck and Ryan came in and sort of jumped Ben in the hierarchy, Mahomes just dye.

    Namath had a far more prolific career.. He got injured later on but people knows how good he was.

  11. #326
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    Eli Manning has been benched. He is done.

  12. #327
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Sorry you walked into the trap I set

    Joe Namath

    -first QB in history to have 4000 yards
    -Super Bowl MVP (Ben never was because he played like trash with like a 20 or 30 passer rating in one Super Bowl)
    -Second Team All Pro in the NFL (Ben was never an All Pro)
    -First Team All NFL (Ben was never an All Pro Equivalent)
    - 3x Second Team All AFL (same as above applies for Ben)
    -2x AFL MVP (I don’t think Ben ever got an MVP vote)
    -AFL Rookie of the Year (Ben actually matches this)
    -2x AFL pleasing yards leader and 1x NFL passing yards leader (Ben is only a 2x leader)
    -AFL All Time Team (only two QB’s listed, him and Dawson who you are aware of, they were unanimously conserved the best QB’s in their league, Ben was never close to an All Decade Team)

    Ben has better numbers in a totally different era where currently Eli and Rivers who were both in his draft classare top 10 and guys like Stanford, Ryan will eventually make it there. Meanwhile guys like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and Favre who all overlapped careers with Ben will be top 10. So literally every decent QB in his era will have top 10 stats. That’s called statistical inflation.

    Namath was a unanimous top 5 of his era along with Dawson, Unitas, and Namath. Ben was always outshined by guys like Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Warner, even guys like Luck and Ryan came in and sort of jumped Ben in the hierarchy, Mahomes just dye.

    Namath had a far more prolific career.. He got injured later on but people knows how good he was.
    Farve was near the end of his career...i mean he had what 3-4 seasons before he faded away in Minnesota by the time Rothlisberger rose to fame. Again no one is saying Namath didn't play in an easy passing league given the rules of then. But saying Rothlisberger's career numbers aren't good enough with 2 Super Bowls to make it into Hall of Fame is silly. The idea other QB's shined somehow discounts Ben's accomplishments is silly. Its like if I said Dawson, Fouts and Unitas outshined Namath as his knee injuries got worse. It wouldn't hold up given what was accomplished.

    Here is Rothlisberger's accomplishments...


    NFL records

    Most regular season wins in a season, rookie QB – 13 (2004)[216]
    Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB – 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)[217]
    Most wins as a starting quarterback in first five NFL seasons (reg. season only) – 51 (from 2004 to 2008)[89]
    Highest completion percentage, rookie season – 66.4% (2004)[218] (Since broken by Dak Prescott)
    Highest single-game completion percentage, rookie season (min. 20 attempts) – 84.0% (completed 21/25 at Dallas October 17, 2004)[219] (Since broken by Dak Prescott)
    Most games with a completion percentage of 70.0% or higher, rookie season (min. 10 attempts) – 6 (2004)[220]
    Most games with a completion percentage of 80.0% or higher, single season (min. 10 attempts) – 4 (2007)[221]
    First QB to start two Conference Championship games in first two seasons in the NFL (2004 & 2005)[217]
    Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; second-youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl, behind Dan Marino)[222]
    Second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the only quarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.[217]
    Lowest passer rating for a Super Bowl winning QB – 22.6 (Completed 9 of 21 passes for zero touchdowns with two interceptions)[223]
    Most yards passing in relief (379 yards on November 15, 2015 against the Cleveland Browns)[224]
    Most consecutive 6+ touchdown pass games (2)[225]
    Most TD passes in consecutive games (12)[226]
    Most career 500+ yard passing games (3)[227]

    Pittsburgh Steelers franchise records

    In his fifteen seasons, Roethlisberger has many individual accomplishments that are record performances in Steelers history.[228][229]

    On October 11, 2012, he passed Terry Bradshaw for most passing yards for a Steelers quarterback.[230]

    On December 8, 2013, he passed Terry Bradshaw for most passing touchdowns for a Steelers quarterback.[231]

    There is more here...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger


    Yes Ben Rothlisberger isn't a good human being and really his off field shit is terrible to hear. But claiming his numbers and records don't matter because some other QB's was around is as silly as me claiming Fouts , Unitas and Starr outshined Namath so he doesn't deserve to be in Hall of Fame.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Farve was near the end of his career...i mean he had what 3-4 seasons before he faded away in Minnesota by the time Rothlisberger rose to fame. Again no one is saying Namath didn't play in an easy passing league given the rules of then. But saying Rothlisberger's career numbers aren't good enough with 2 Super Bowls to make it into Hall of Fame is silly. The idea other QB's shined somehow discounts Ben's accomplishments is silly. Its like if I said Dawson, Fouts and Unitas outshined Namath as his knee injuries got worse. It wouldn't hold up given what was accomplished.

    Here is Rothlisberger's accomplishments...








    There is more here...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger


    Yes Ben Rothlisberger isn't a good human being and really his off field shit is terrible to hear. But claiming his numbers and records don't matter because some other QB's was around is as silly as me claiming Fouts , Unitas and Starr outshined Namath so he doesn't deserve to be in Hall of Fame.
    I wasn’t saying he shouldn’t be in the Hall. I was saying he wasn’t more accomplished than Namath. He wasn’t

  14. #329
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    So looks like Miami is tanking to get a #1 QB next year, except they won't have a team to put around him. How has that worked out for other teams?
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  15. #330

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    So looks like Miami is tanking to get a #1 QB next year, except they won't have a team to put around him. How has that worked out for other teams?
    So far it's working for Arizona... maybe not in the W/L/Tie column through two games... but they've got the first rookie QB to put up 300+ yards passing in his first two games since Cam Newton.


    Speaking of Cam Newton, just read on Deadspin that his foot is all jacked up, that's why he's played like hot garbage the first two games, and he's going to be out for awhile.


    The top comment on the story offers this:

    A friendly reminder that there’s a mobile, talented quarterback who’s sitting at home and could maybe actually help the Panthers keep looking something like a respectable, playoff team, and they’re gonna start Kyle Allen and probably Will Grier before him.

    We’re already reaching peak “there’s no good reason Colin Kaepernick shouldn’t have a job right now” and it’s barely even Week 3.
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