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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    While DC also does this, I do think it's a bit more of a novelty for them. Conversely, even back in the day Rhino:s second appearance was in a Hulk book, (he's actually a gamma mutates). Guys like Absorbing-Man and the Wrecking Crew, while ostensibly Thor villains are practically freelancers, same with Modok etc.

    If anything this is less common for Marvel now than it used to be. Early on Rhino appeared more often on the pages of Hulk than Spiderman, but nowadays he rarely appears outside of the Spidey books.

  2. #32
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    While DC also does this, I do think it's a bit more of a novelty for them. Conversely, even back in the day Rhino:s second appearance was in a Hulk book, (he's actually a gamma mutates). Guys like Absorbing-Man and the Wrecking Crew, while ostensibly Thor villains are practically freelancers, same with Modok etc.

    If anything this is less common for Marvel now than it used to be. Early on Rhino appeared more often on the pages of Hulk than Spiderman, but nowadays he rarely appears outside of the Spidey books.
    I don't know man, it might be more of a case by case basis. Just going by Spider-Man's new run, it has him dealing with the Thieves' Guild (usually belonging to the X-Men, especially Gambit) and Arcade is one of the main villains of Hunted (also X-Men, but also branched out to teen heroes rather infamously). Kraven also tussles with the High Evolutionary (Marvel-wide, but often part of the X-Men), and Kraven captures the Owl (Daredevil) and Serpent Solutions (Captain America). Also, Taskmaster and Black Ant appear often enough that they're practically rogues here, and they're more Avengers/general MU-related than part of the Spider-Man mythos.

    What I really like is that they do draw from the wide universe (heck, Boomerang is a prominent character here and remember he debuted in Hulk) but is written well enough that it flows naturally and you don't need extensive knowledge of non-Spidey stuff to enjoy it.
    Last edited by Hybrid; 09-05-2019 at 12:14 PM.

  3. #33
    Boisterously Confused
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    Some of this (IMO) was baked into the two companies organizational DNA. Reaching back to its days as two cooperating but distinct companies (National Comics and All-American Comics), DC's editorial lines were highly compartmentalized. When what had been Atlas (nee Timely) was transitioning to Marvel, it had a highly centralized structure, with Lee's hands in almost everything. I suspect that some of this common-environment approach to characters and situations came out of that view of who owned the characters.

    Also, early in Marvel's history, Marvel was the scrappy alternative to then-industry dominant DC, but still a minor player in the game. I have to wonder if some of this cross-pollination was a deliberate effort by Lee to interest readers with a different feel to the books, and to cross-promote his titles.

  4. #34
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    The mixing up of rogues just helps with portraying that the universe is shared. I think most heroes still have exclusive villains.
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  5. #35
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Magneto fighting the Avengers sort of made sense with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver on the team, who at least at first were his former teammates.

    It was also during an era I think when the X-men were pretty much in limbo/reprints, so Magneto took on other teams. Granted, he was more of a stock Super-villain those days as well, instead of the more complex character Claremont eventually developed him into.
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  6. #36
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    Honestly there has been so much hero-vs-hero stories and one-story-villains for the past couple of decades at Marvel, that it's almost a moot point. Nevermind crossovers, heroes don't even fight their own villains for huge stretches of time.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Honestly there has been so much hero-vs-hero stories and one-story-villains for the past couple of decades at Marvel, that it's almost a moot point. Nevermind crossovers, heroes don't even fight their own villains for huge stretches of time.
    Even if they do fight their own villains it is the same handfull of villains over and over with most of the the others just sitting on the shelf.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post


    One of the craziest Acts of Vengeance crossover issues. Daredevil and the Inhumans taking on Ultron.
    To be fair, the entire point of Acts of Vengeance was that villains attack heroes they normally have nothing to do with. With this topic, I was mainly referring to the fact that Marvel treats heroes fighting villains of different heroes as a regular occurrence, whereas in DC such instances are treated as special and come about via explicit crossover.

  9. #39
    I am BLACK GUY dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I think it might be reason of tone. DC prides itself in having many smaller settings that fit a different niche, while Marvel is much more connected and lets it all flow together. I mentioned there never being a Wonder Woman comic where she fought Reverse-Flash, and it's easy to figure out why: Wonder Woman is based on Greek mythology and high fantasy, while Reverse-Flash is from the future and has a sci-fi origin, which would make him stick out like a sore thumb. DC is a kitchen sink of science and fantasy, but wants to make sure each side is distinct when possible. Sure, Marvel is also a kitchen sink of science and fantasy, but they never had much of an issue with the idea of Iron Man (an industrialist billionaire playboy in a suit of futuristic power armor) fighting Loki (the Norse God of Mischief) so long as they thought it made a great story.

    That's how I see it, anyways.

    Lol, I thought this was funny

    wonder zoom.jpg

    zoom wonder.jpg

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I find I am only selectively interested in DC. It's usually specific characters like Huntress, Batwoman, Jessica Cruz. The one I want to read about right now is Poison Ivy because it was implied that she is planning to become a more heroic type character and possibly the new representative for The Green.

    That's the difference I think, those four characters I mentioned in DC are all newer bronze age and later characters and they all change over time, they are allowed to grow and become something different over time.

    I find Marvel changes up their character status quo a lot more often, and the characters deal with personal problems almost as much as they deal with villains. Tony is going through a court case where he may not be able to prove he is a person anymore and will have his rights stripped away, Carol was outed as being half Kree and now she has become hated by the general public, Peter is starting to get his career on track finally and possibly even moving his relationship with MJ forward. The X-Men have formed a new nation of Krakoa and their country has become a world economic power comparable to Wakanda and politically independent like Atlantis. Thor has now become the King of Asgard.

    I find Marvel characters aren't stuck in a box as much as DC characters. I used to like Batman but now I just find him kind of boring like Superman. They are both stuck in an endless unchanging pattern. There were rumors on the Internet of an African American Batman, do it! Change it up, take the character in a different direction for a couple of years. Jane Foster as Thor was an excellent change to stir the Asgardians up for a bit. Thor's exploration of his own failings helped him become confident to become King of the Asgardians.

    I don't like sacred cows, I think it's great to stir things up and change things. I want my favorite characters to have a place in the new status quo somewhere, but I still enjoy when they try new stories with the characters and step out of the nostalgia stories for a while.

    I would love it if there was a big change and say Emma Frost joins the Avengers. Thor forms a team for a critical mission in the realms and pulls from all the groups. There are so many ways that things could be mixed up.

    Lol, have Superior Spiderman form his own Avengers team, the Superior Avengers, just for fun!
    Both Supes and Bats have become fathers in recent years though and that has stuck for both characters. I mean Peter getting with MJ is a return to the pre-OMD status quo while the post-OMD status quo was all about getting back to the old status quo. But Marvel does have a stronger interconnected universe and always has and thatís because the modern MU is mostly the work of two men, Lee and Kirby (and Dikto to a lesser capacity). DC is a hodgepodge of characters from multiple creators and eras.

  11. #41
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Both Supes and Bats have become fathers in recent years though and that has stuck for both characters. I mean Peter getting with MJ is a return to the pre-OMD status quo while the post-OMD status quo was all about getting back to the old status quo. But Marvel does have a stronger interconnected universe and always has and that’s because the modern MU is mostly the work of two men, Lee and Kirby (and Dikto to a lesser capacity). DC is a hodgepodge of characters from multiple creators and eras.
    Although things felt more interconnected or cohesive during the Post-Crisis era (in my opinion) then they do now.

  12. #42
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    For a while I had been trying to figure why Iíve had a dislike with DC, but after reading this I really think you hit it right on the head for me. The DC world does feel smaller to me, and I have had issues reading the characters I like, or gravitate to, because this lack of cohesiveness with villains and with all the made up cities that anyone one hero or villain sticks with. Now, Iíve probably read 1 DC comic to every 100 Marvel comics, so maybe my perspective is off, but your post really resonated with me and what Iíve read.
    One thing that doesn't make sense is that why the hell would a criminal choose New York when he knows the Avengers, FF4 and freaking Dr. Strange is there? Has anyone in Marvel ever tried to answer that question?

    If you're a criminal in DC you would try Gotham, Star City, or any of the cities occupied by less powerful heroes because at least you have a chance of kicking their asses. And usually I find the villains in DC to have a closer bond to their arch-nemesis. Even C-list characters like Firestorm have a unique relationship with his villains such as Hyena and Multiplex, there's a reason why they hate his ass. Whereas in Marvel it feels a bit more random nowadays.

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post

    I find Marvel characters aren't stuck in a box as much as DC characters. I used to like Batman but now I just find him kind of boring like Superman. They are both stuck in an endless unchanging pattern.
    Clark Kent goes through changes, more than Bruce Wayne. Even in pre-crisis and post-crisis. If you follow his career trajectory it's not too different from Peter Parker's. Superman on the other hand stays more or less the same.
    Last edited by LifeIsILL; 09-06-2019 at 06:26 PM.

  13. #43
    I am BLACK GUY dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    One thing that doesn't make sense is that why the hell would a criminal choose New York when he knows the Avengers, FF4 and freaking Dr. Strange is there? Has anyone in Marvel ever tried to answer that question?
    That's because despite all the crooks we see getting beaten and locked up it's mostly the guys at the bottom of totem pole that given hard time by guys like Spidey and Daredevil. The higher tier crooks are able to make a decent living and profit off of crime New York. There are dozens of crime families led by Kingpin who live comfortable lives of luxury. We see them all the time. There is thriving criminal community in Marvel New York complete with bars the cater to near-do wells.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Honestly, I'm much in the same boat. I've always been Marvel over DC, and really can only get into DC a lot by animation. I can just jump into Marvel much easier than I can DC, because regardless of what book I'm reading it feels like it's part of a natural and connected world. My enjoyment of DC is rather limited because it feels like a bunch of micro-settings that only occasionally interact with each other. The main ones I like to read are Batman and related titles, Teen Titans, Green Arrow and Deathstroke. A little bit of Wonder Woman as well. With Marvel, it's a lot more varied. I'm currently reading all the Spider-titles, X-Men, Runaways, Daredevil, Avengers, and some individual Avenger stuff (including the IM/Cap/Thor trinity), and the Fantastic Four, and I know there's more on the way.

    Also, I know it sounds odd to say, but I really like the way few Marvel heroes can just fly as a superpower. Stan Lee said he hated how superheroes can fly for no reason, and set out to make sure everyone had some kind of unique mode of travel. It really does make characters feel unique, whether they hold a super hammer, use jet propulsion, swing on a web, have a suit of armor, ride on an object, glide in combination with sonic powers, leap great distances, have a wingsuit, a magical artifact, or by surrounding themselves with energy. Compare this to half the DC heroes flying just 'cause, or in the case of the Flash, running.

    To illustrate:

    Attachment 86551
    Attachment 86552
    Itís funny that you say that.

    I always felt that everything being in NYC made the universe feel smaller and more overly complicated making it harder to really jump into the comics.

    Thatís why my favorite Marvel runs tend to have little crossovers and overlapping. Spider-Man is the easiest to get into because heís comparatively independent from the rest of the Marvel Universe.

  15. #45
    Fantastic Member Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    One thing that doesn't make sense is that why the hell would a criminal choose New York when he knows the Avengers, FF4 and freaking Dr. Strange is there? Has anyone in Marvel ever tried to answer that question?
    Well, it certainly would make sense for most criminals to exit NYC, but they don’t. NYC is seemingly the place to be in the MU. I do prefer it this way, but have enjoyed a few books that took place outside NYC, for instance Scarlet Spider featuring Kaine was set in Austin, TX? Somewhere in TX. Superior Spidey now is set in SF, same as Daredevil a bit ago. They all have had their villains there. The West Coast Avengers had their share of baddies and a lot of teams seem to play on the international or interstellar field.
    And you know, I really have read way more Marvel than DC in my time. I don’t have much experience besides some Flash and some Batman. Thing is, they seemingly recycled the same villains. For instance, the biggest stories I believe I’ve read for Batman are Year One, Dark Knight Returns, and Long Halloween/Dark Victory, Killing Joke, and a few others, and for the most part, it’s pretty much the same bad guys in all these books (except Year One, but that ended with a Joker tease). And when I read the new 52 stuff, it just seemed to reiterate that for me. Like I see a lot of use of what I consider the main rogues, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, and a few others.

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