House of x [4] : It will be done [spoilers]

[Triniking1234]

I think the issue is that they were taken by surprise by that or that she didn't have the TK shields up before even landing (weren't they expecting to be stopped before boarding?).

They were expecting the guards to be at the hangars and the release levers. That's why they were cutting a hole at that point of the Orchis station.

[powerpax]

They were expecting the guards to be at the hangars and the release levers. That's why they were cutting a hole at that point of the Orchis station.

Directly above the explosion.

[MechaJeanix]

Anyone remember that time that Legion/SK blew up a chunk of Muir Isle and Jean saved all the X-men, X-Factor and the MI mutants with her TK shields?





Yeah, I dont buy that she has slow reaction time, weak TK and that there was absolutely no way she could have protected her team

Hasn’t JDW said numerous times, and as recent as yesterday on Twitter, that continuity doesn’t really matter? I mean there is a reason x-fans do not trust the x-office. I have a strong feeling things are not going to get better between us and them. For one, the creators on social media come off as very thin skinned. They like us when we like their product, but they detest any sort of criticism (but they mask by making fun of fans and acting like certain criticism is valid but they don’t receive the right kind, etc).

We aren’t expected to judge the stories or characters based on past stories apparently.

[Havok83]

Directly above the explosion.

yeah it doesnt make sense that they wouldnt have anticipated an attack as they started breaching with Jean putting up shields to protect them and the ship. Maybe they wouldnt have expected a bomb, but definitely weapons and sentinels ready to go in on them. The fact that they didnt and thought they could just breach with no interference was shortsighted to say the least. I dont get how Cyclops could have made such an amateur mistake.

[powerpax]

yeah it doesnt make sense that they wouldnt have anticipated an attack as they started breaching with Jean putting up shields to protect them and the ship.

They were not landing at a known breach point. No one was supposed to be there. Erasmus just happened to be in the right place at the wrong time.

If you say 'well, they should've done it anyway' - let's just not make comics with fights anymore because the X-Men can win them all.

[Triniking1234]

Directly above the explosion.

Which was already established as not being part of the plan so what was the point of bringing this up?

[powerpax]

Which was already established as not being part of the plan so what was the point of bringing this up?

I wasn't arguing with you. I was agreeing. That explosion is the reason Archangel and Husk died.

[JKtheMac]

i

I think that handwaving is pretty much what I had in mind but I probably changed the emphasis by putting it from the writers’ perspective rather than the readers’. I wasn’t picturing them getting specific about it on an extended basis, more just counting on that handwaving on the readers’ part. But I do still imagine that would cause a situation where every reader is waiting on some specific thing to be acknowledged as definitely having happened in the new timeline. Because fandom’s capacity for forgiving crazy-straw continuity is matched only by its fastidious fixation on details...

Tell me about it. I am still occasionally explaining to people that there wasn’t a reset in Secret Wars, because Brevoort decided to hold onto “there is more than one possible interpretation” for a couple of weeks instead of just saying “actually all that stuff still happened”. And that does have clear evidence to point to, just not in the books everyone was reading. Not to mention the whole post Secret Wars X-Men situation where clearly Cyclops was universally hated for months for no real reason that emerged in continuity.

To clarify, I imagine Hickman will pull a twist, and whatever choice he makes will be necessary.

[Graphicisnovel]

Hasn’t JDW said numerous times, and as recent as yesterday on Twitter, that continuity doesn’t really matter? I mean there is a reason x-fans do not trust the x-office. I have a strong feeling things are not going to get better between us and them. For one, the creators on social media come off as very thin skinned. They like us when we like their product, but they detest any sort of criticism (but they mask by making fun of fans and acting like certain criticism is valid but they don’t receive the right kind, etc).

We aren’t expected to judge the stories or characters based on past stories apparently.

god, that is not what he said. You guys are so "black and white/no greys." And those circumstances were totally different for Jean. "Your" faves are not infallible. The jean or the X-men can be caught off guard believe it or not, despite having been invincible in some other story.

[Not to mention we literally have seen only the tip of the iceberg of what truly is going on you guys are jumping the gun.] The biggest tactical discrepancy is actually the team choice and I would swallow my arm if we don't get an explanation for that.

[powerpax]

I think it was a pretty solid team. As I've said, people misjudge Warren who has been seriously OP since UXF at least. He does not need wide open space or even to be off the ground to operate as a killing machine. The problem is events went sideways on them in a way they could not predict and, as you stated, faves are not infallible just bc of past feats. That's the nature of drama. I'd be saying it if Betsy was there or anyone else.

[useridgoeshere]

I've read each of these issues at least twice and the one thing I'm almost certain of is this 10th life of Moira's is not the continuity/X-Men canon we've been reading. This is either extremely early in the X-Men's inception or this is something entirely different.
I'd bet money that, at the very least, in this continuity The X-Men have no idea about the Phoenix Force. Xavier and Moira know about it. Magneto possibly knows about it, but Jean never encountered it.
In HOX 4, she is too green (figuratively and literally in that costume). She never wielded all that power. At this point she has Omega potential, but nothing about what she did in HOX 4 shows she's reached that potential.
In this timeline, Cyclops also never encountered the Phoenix Force. He's wearing that costume in a blue version because Xavier wants that soldier with none of the heat (his death) that eventually came with it.
Timeline 10 is currently happening, but Xavier and Moira are pulling the strings and orchestrating events to get the versions of mutants that they want. Xavier is trying to spare them pain and trying to prevent his death, so the Phoenix Force has never been a part of this timeline.
I'd stretch it even further to say that Cyclops and Jean never married and Emma and Cyclops were never together. Xavier and Moira and possibly Magneto are picking the versions of the mutants they want based on events in their particular lives in Moira's lives. I have no theories on the Krakow pods we saw in HOX 1. And I'd even go so far as to say Life 6 is just the mess of continuity that we have been reading all these years and Hickman has a plan for it.

This is really interesting. I like it. I don't know if I agree, but I like it.

This. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. "It's not fair" is not an argument.

I think that "what's so hard to understand" point goes both ways. The weak-Jean side's opinion is based on portrayals in past events that happened on page and the other is based on just accepting the story as it is and filling in gaps with head canon to explain how two telepaths get caught off-guard and how people breaking into a space station are surprised someone might try to blow them up. After so many pages about Jean, this all feels very circular and I don't think anyone has been or will be convinced to change their mind on their interpretation of her portrayal.

[Arsenal]

Because they were expecting the bulk of the station’s defenses to be at the hangers waiting to engage an enemy that wasn’t there. Between that and the station going on lockdown, the strike team wouldn’t been free to infiltrate the station on their way to the targets with minimal interference to slow them down.

What they weren’t expecting, however, was somebody to be there when they began the breach (which alerted the enemy command of their plan prematurely) nor were they expecting somebody to be willing to blow themselves up to prevent the breach. Those are two variables that you can’t reasonably plan for and must be dealt with on the fly.

[Havok83]

They were not landing at a known breach point. No one was supposed to be there. Erasmus just happened to be in the right place at the wrong time.

If you say 'well, they should've done it anyway' - let's just not make comics with fights anymore because the X-Men can win them all.

And that was an error on Scott's part for not being prepared. Jean was doing nothing at that point and it really wouldnt have hurt to prepare for a possible attack. This is the same dude that thouhgt up multiple scenarios in Fear Itself before sending in his troops to take on Juggernaut

[powerpax]

After so many pages about Jean, this all feels very circular and I don't think anyone has been or will be convinced to change their mind on their interpretation of her portrayal.

That's absolutely true.

That being said, I don't have to headcanon anything. We clearly saw Jean was shaken up and/or injured after the attack, and we clearly saw Jean's primary responsibility was the uplink to Krakoa. She was asked to do that while the others performed other tasks. She kept that uplink going. Whether you agree with that strategic usage of Jean or not it is a valid choice, not an indicator it is all she can do. Disagreeing with her usage is valid, but past stories where Jean is nonstop OP at all times can also potentially make her unusable, so for the purposes of narrative it is sometimes necessary to limit her use in a story. Otherwise you have conflict and no risk. Same with any number of other mutants. You can have either a story or a feats showcase sometimes, you can't usually have both.

[Triniking1234]

HoX 3 already implies that they're going to just destroy Mother Mold and not kill as many flatscans as possible. They wouldn't expect a suicide bomber cuz anyone stupid enough to do that would put the rest of the crew and Mother Mold in danger.