House of x [4] : It will be done [spoilers]

[loke13]

Which are separate events from AvX...not everything that happened in L4 would have happened in L10 leading up to HoX.

Oh jeysus now people are saying the P5 didn't happen in this Life 10? What purpose would that serve? If Decimation happened as well as Hope and her 5 Lights then why wouldn't AvX (which is the conclusion to the Decimation story) not have happened?

[butterflykyss]

Without AvX, how does mutantkind recover from Decimation? The Lights existing means that Hope was again chosen to undo No More Mutants, which also means Phoenix involvement.

this!! all of this!! the p5 definitely occurred in 616.

[spirit2011]

this!! all of this!! the p5 definitely occurred in 616.

It doesn't need the P5. Hope and the lights would do it

[Devaishwarya]

Take deep breaths sweetie. We're all just crazy theorising here. Nothing anyone has said so far since HoX started is 100% true. Nor is it likely to be. So no need for the angst and implicit judgment.
It may have happened, but not important enough to register as significant to Moira's/HoX story. Or it may not have happened because...it's not important to register as significant to Moira's/HoX story. See?

[loke13]

It doesn't need the P5. Hope and the lights would do it

They would have if the Avengers hadn't screwed the pooch.

[PsychoEFrost]

It doesn't need the P5. Hope and the lights would do it

That would require

A) The Avengers not consulting Wolverine, and therefore bringing an army to destroy Utopia
B) The Avengers not placed with their backs to the wall so that Wanda Maximoff can return to them

Since the only way to undo No More Mutants was to combine Hope's ability to use mutant abilities to allow her to use Wanda's Chaos Magic as a Phoenix, which normally isn't possible, since Chaos magic injures the Phoenix.

[TOTALITY]

All I am adding to the equation is that she played similar but subtly different moves in two lives. That’s not complicated.

I agree that it's not complicated as a concept, as your concise explanation demonstrates. But to be reductive, having two mostly redundant timelines is still more complicated than one. And I'm just not sure what of these retcons (that we've seen so far) would necessitate their being quarantined in a separate, otherwise similar timeline. Maybe something else will be revealed that changes that, but it seems like that would take a lot; the continuity we've had all along has withstood quite a lot of writers going back and inserting new history to make new developments feel like they were planned from the beginning, and I think it could easily withstand more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the main appeal of your theory is that it could be open-ended, allowing writers to deviate from established continuity in small ways wherever they see fit down the line? That could come in handy, but I feel like it would also throw all of established continuity into a Schrödinger state of "did / didn't happen as we remember" until specifically sorted into the life 10 column. And these creators surely understand that this fandom is the type where every reader has their own super specific thing they would want acknowledged as having definitely happened in the current continuity, preferably immediately. Not that they would necessarily prioritize those fan concerns. But it still feels like losing more than they'd gain, given that writers pretty much already deviate from established continuity where they see fit anyway. So I'm not sure it fits Hickman's stated philosophy that Marvel stories should be additive and not destructive, at least not as cleanly as simply inserting some things between the pages we know, the way retcons have always worked without needing to preserve the established continuity in a separate timeline.

[Andru]

So we are just tossing stories & events we don't like into previous lives of Moira then?

Maybe I am just not diving deep enough into this story...total possibility...but I feel like the creators have spelled it out quite clearly that everything we have read previously (X-Men's inception in the 60's until Rosenberg's Uncanny & Age of X-Man) has occurred during Moira's tenth life, current continuity, 616, whatever you want to call it.

[Devaishwarya]

That's basically how I read it to be.
Just that certain events/eras (AvX eg) have very little to absolutely no relevance to the story being told currently.

[powerpax]

So we are just tossing stories & events we don't like into previous lives of Moira then?

I sure am! I think it's a pretty elegant solution until explicitly told otherwise. But yes, as of now I think HoX is still our present timeline.

[HomoSuperior]

That's basically how I read it to be.
Just that certain events/eras (AvX eg) have very little to absolutely no relevance to the story being told currently.

I like that idea as explanation for how some of the more questionable events fit within continuity. They were glimpses of Moira’s other lives. So in which life did X-Men and Micronauts vs. Xavier as “The Entity” occur? I think it was my first X-Men comic. In hindsight it was a pretty cool story. Kinda sci-fi. Maybe Hickman could revisit.

216361C6-CDE9-47E8-B37C-B71559246496.jpg

[RamaBird]

this!! all of this!! the p5 definitely occurred in 616.

They revealed that the PhoeniX 5 was part of the "lost decade" in Life 5 though... Seems to me that was a diss from Hickman. As for how Mutants recovered from Decimation in a Phoenix 5 less universe? Well, Phoenix came and there was no drama as XMEN/Avengers acted like adults and didn't fight. Rachel would've trained Hope too.

[RamaBird]

So we are just tossing stories & events we don't like into previous lives of Moira then?

Maybe I am just not diving deep enough into this story...total possibility...but I feel like the creators have spelled it out quite clearly that everything we have read previously (X-Men's inception in the 60's until Rosenberg's Uncanny & Age of X-Man) has occurred during Moira's tenth life, current continuity, 616, whatever you want to call it.

I think you're assuming. They never said that Rosenberg/Age of Man took place in the Apocalypse/Life 10. In Life 5, they revealed everything after the Phoenix 5 was part of the "lost decade" so that probably includes Rosenberg too (my own assumption). Hickman had also made passive disses at recent writers, so doubt he wants to include much recent work.

[TOTALITY]

Sorting things we don’t like into Moira’s past lives is fun head-canon but as a workable long term solution I prefer things like AvX being “removed” from canon the old fashioned way: by writers never referencing them unless they absolutely have to.

(Also speaking of AvX... remember how Hickman wrote two issues of it?? I assume most people do remember, just saying it’s funny to think about at this point. Curious to go back and reread just those two issues. Also only just remembered that in addition to Cannonball and Sunspot joining his Avengers lineup and Smasher’s origin being built on a bunch of X-Men lore, his new Avengers character Manifold was the son of Gateway! He really must have been itching to write X-Men the whole time...)

[TOTALITY]

I think you're assuming. They never said that Rosenberg/Age of Man took place in the Apocalypse/Life 10. In Life 5, they revealed everything after the Phoenix 5 was part of the "lost decade" so that probably includes Rosenberg too (my own assumption). Hickman had also made passive disses at recent writers, so doubt he wants to include much recent work.

Wait what? I need this tea!