House of x [4] : It will be done [spoilers]

[GeneTitan]

Yes, we've talked enough about Jean. Let's talk about Scott's leadership. This was his mission and he got everyone on the team killed. What happened to the guy who said "Not Plan B. Plan 2. Plan B implies we only have 26."?

That Scott was with Emma (which in this timeline never happened). So he doesn't have that skillset and mindset in this particular timeline.

[Veitha]

Utopia Era Scott would not have let the explosion completely throw off the mission. Nor would he have ad an unshielded ship.

A point that could be made is that we don't know what kind of bomb was deployed. They obviously had antimutant tech there.

[Devaishwarya]

Jean should have employed her TK...Scott should have chosen a better team...Monet should have been stronger...they should ALL have survived that blast....you know what? Marvel should just fire HiX-Man and hire me instead because I can obviously write a much better story. I know exactly what HoX and PoX are about and how this story should end.

[powerpax]

I’m not interested in feats but was responding to someone who was referencing feats in conjunction with the concept or theory of continuity. I’m more interested in the poor and stereotypical portrayal of women characters in various forms of media. I make no apology for this. I also expressed frustration with how creators react to criticism from fans which is valid. I do acknowledge that I can be wrong. I have enjoyed hox/pox until this issue. Though I have not enjoyed most xbooks under JDW’s tenure thus far. I hope to be wrong about Hickman and how he writes women/minority characters. But thus far he centers the guys and writes them very differently than the women characters.

Everyone died on that mission male and female, so that doesn't track from the poster with "Jean" in their screen name. You had to shoot your shot, though.

Also, let's not forget this event currently centers around the omniscient Moira MacTaggert.

[Gladiator]

Everyone died on that mission male and female, so that doesn't track from the poster with "Jean" in their screen name. You had to shoot your shot, though.

Also, let's not forget this event currently centers around the omniscient Moira MacTaggert.

Exactly. Some of the best scenes included Moira, Emma, Destiny, Rasputin, Omega Sentinel.....

Anyway, these weren’t pod x-men. They were the real deal. She still has life 11.

[jwatson]

I never thought about a difference in order of recruitment. That makes complete sense.

It's what i would have done. I would have helped Jean on the side but let her grow into her powers rather than rush her, especially when i have fore knowledge and am a telepath myself and have a plethora of telepaths i can use to help. Letting Jean grow into her powers would be the best case in a perfect world rather than rushing to have her rejoin just to be one of the first x-men again. To me that doesn't make sense for Xavier to do because they are trying to specifically do something not create a team that is going out there interacting for positive human relations just yet. Which is perfect why Xstatix is coming up soon. It can be a stand alone but also a perfect outreach book in this new world.

If i were recruiting i'm going after land first, so i'm going after your Betsy, your Ororos, anyone who you can make the argument has a royal claim in other lands. Boom you got a foot hole in England and Africa lets plant them seeds. You also have some diplomatic immunity especially if Kenya has a great relaticonship with Wakanda. Of course this is after putting together your planning team, your Forge, Doug, Magneto, Xavier. Okay now that we have some land for these seeds and a plan we need mutants who can help it grow. So now i'm going after my omegas or mutants with enough energy to feed krokoa. Okay, now i need soilders because i have to reveal this. Lets get our cyclops and our monets and stuff.

It makes sense to me in a world where your playing chess Jean wouldn't be a piece brought in early. At least not for what the Moira and co are trying to do.

[hawkeyefan]

I feel like there are two ways to look at this story.

One is on its own. I feel like the story is as internally consistent as we can expect. I think that everything makes sense within the bounds of this story. Last issue, this mission was billed as pretty much a suicide mission. And this issue confirmed that. It really shouldn't be surprising. I don't really feel that anyone's characterization was off, nor do I think that anyone seemed "incompetent". I do think that a higher sense of danger is established than what's typical in most superhero stories. So I think that overall power levels of characters has been dialed back a bit, and their general invulnerability (not as a power, but just as a star of the story) has been toned down quite a bit. These characters can get seriously hurt and killed in the line of duty. This story made that very clear. It also had a very clear sense of desperation on the part of the X-Men. They were in trouble from the very start, and they pressed on. I got that sense from all of them. It manifested in different ways for some of them. Was Jean's sense of worry an issue for me? Not at all. I think as the one who was experiencing everything from everyone firsthand and acting as that hub, she was the most concerned.

The second way to view it is to judge this story based on past stories. This is where things get a little problematic. While I can understand how some people would look at it this way, and then say that certain things make no sense....I feel like it's a bit unfair. But I also get that continuity and a shared universe are kind of billed as features of these stories.....so I get it. But still. Why do I care what Jean did in issue 280 of Uncanny in 1993? Why would I let that influence how I feel about this story? What about the shitty stories of the past? Do they get to take precedence over a good story today simply because they came first? I would expect most of us are willing to ditch at least a few stories we've read over the years. I know I am.

And I think that's really the only way to approach this series. I know it relies on the history of the X-Men. The Moira retcon and the scenes from the past make that very much a part of things. But this is also a relaunch of the franchise. A new starting point. I think we have to accept that and what the story here is establishing, and not try to let past perceptions contradict how we view this. Things are a bit toned down power-wise, characters are in actual danger, they're not all Omega level masters who can do anything they want with their powers. They have limits and flaws. We have to rely on what we're being shown here, with only a general broad view of what's come before.

Having said all that, I do think that what we're seeing is meant to be the continuity we've known all along....the 616 or primary Marvel U, whatever you want to call it. But I also think there are some things that seem just odd enough to make me expect something's up. Obviously, the opening scene of the series, with Xavier and the Krakoa pods, is the big thing that casts everything in a new light.....but his reaction in this issue makes me wonder when that opening scene takes place. None of the characters, including Xavier, seemed to think that any of the deaths were meaningless, or that they could be undone. So, if that's the case, is that opening scene on Krakoa Xavier's response to the team's deaths? If so, then how or why are other characters who were dead, like Banshee and the Cuckoos and so on, already back at the start of the series?

I had previously thought Xavier was crafting clones of some kind through Krakoa and using his memories to kind of "idealize" them. That would explain the kind of little oddities like Jean being in her old outfit and so on. But now I'm not sure that it all lines up. Xavier certainly didn't seem like someone who just watched his colleagues die but had the means to bring them back. He seemed angered and frustrated at their loss, and determined not to let it happen again. So whatever Hickman's up to, I don't think anyone's nailed it exactly....despite some interesting theories.

We'll see how it plays out.

[jwatson]

As far as the pods i think its proably something as simple as shedding your "human life" and embracing your mutant life. Almost like a citizenship test. Krakoa gets your info, feeds off you for a bit (Xavier said everyone has to give.) and then you are "reborn" as a krakoan citizen or whatever they will call their citizens.

[Havok83]

As far as the pods i think its proably something as simple as shedding your "human life" and embracing your mutant life. Almost like a citizenship test. Krakoa gets your info, feeds off you for a bit (Xavier said everyone has to give.) and then you are "reborn" as a krakoan citizen or whatever they will call their citizens.

Its hard to imagine that everyone would go for that indoctrination with no objections which leads me to believe Xavier forced many of them

[jwatson]

I feel like there are two ways to look at this story.

One is on its own. I feel like the story is as internally consistent as we can expect. I think that everything makes sense within the bounds of this story. Last issue, this mission was billed as pretty much a suicide mission. And this issue confirmed that. It really shouldn't be surprising. I don't really feel that anyone's characterization was off, nor do I think that anyone seemed "incompetent". I do think that a higher sense of danger is established than what's typical in most superhero stories. So I think that overall power levels of characters has been dialed back a bit, and their general invulnerability (not as a power, but just as a star of the story) has been toned down quite a bit. These characters can get seriously hurt and killed in the line of duty. This story made that very clear. It also had a very clear sense of desperation on the part of the X-Men. They were in trouble from the very start, and they pressed on. I got that sense from all of them. It manifested in different ways for some of them. Was Jean's sense of worry an issue for me? Not at all. I think as the one who was experiencing everything from everyone firsthand and acting as that hub, she was the most concerned.

The second way to view it is to judge this story based on past stories. This is where things get a little problematic. While I can understand how some people would look at it this way, and then say that certain things make no sense....I feel like it's a bit unfair. But I also get that continuity and a shared universe are kind of billed as features of these stories.....so I get it. But still. Why do I care what Jean did in issue 280 of Uncanny in 1993? Why would I let that influence how I feel about this story? What about the shitty stories of the past? Do they get to take precedence over a good story today simply because they came first? I would expect most of us are willing to ditch at least a few stories we've read over the years. I know I am.

And I think that's really the only way to approach this series. I know it relies on the history of the X-Men. The Moira retcon and the scenes from the past make that very much a part of things. But this is also a relaunch of the franchise. A new starting point. I think we have to accept that and what the story here is establishing, and not try to let past perceptions contradict how we view this. Things are a bit toned down power-wise, characters are in actual danger, they're not all Omega level masters who can do anything they want with their powers. They have limits and flaws. We have to rely on what we're being shown here, with only a general broad view of what's come before.

Having said all that, I do think that what we're seeing is meant to be the continuity we've known all along....the 616 or primary Marvel U, whatever you want to call it. But I also think there are some things that seem just odd enough to make me expect something's up. Obviously, the opening scene of the series, with Xavier and the Krakoa pods, is the big thing that casts everything in a new light.....but his reaction in this issue makes me wonder when that opening scene takes place. None of the characters, including Xavier, seemed to think that any of the deaths were meaningless, or that they could be undone. So, if that's the case, is that opening scene on Krakoa Xavier's response to the team's deaths? If so, then how or why are other characters who were dead, like Banshee and the Cuckoos and so on, already back at the start of the series?

I had previously thought Xavier was crafting clones of some kind through Krakoa and using his memories to kind of "idealize" them. That would explain the kind of little oddities like Jean being in her old outfit and so on. But now I'm not sure that it all lines up. Xavier certainly didn't seem like someone who just watched his colleagues die but had the means to bring them back. He seemed angered and frustrated at their loss, and determined not to let it happen again. So whatever Hickman's up to, I don't think anyone's nailed it exactly....despite some interesting theories.

We'll see how it plays out.

and just the tech alone would have taken time. So we are either in a different life which isn't the 616 as we know it or there was one huge time jump. All this seeds grew in a matter of months? An entire island? A language created. Organic technology installed. A call sent out to mutants from around the world. Its more likely we are suppose to believe this has been years in the making in this world not some overnight plan. I can't wait until we know for sure though, it's exciting.

[jwatson]

Its hard to imagine that everyone would go for that indoctrination with no objections which leads me to believe Xavier forced many of them

They could simply choose to not be a citizen of krakoa but if you are promising people a land where they can live in peace after being targetted time and time again i don't see why they wouldn't. I dont see why they wouldn't put just as much on the line to get to kroka as real life refugees do to get to America and other countries. There will proably be exceptions of dual citizenship of course but there needs to be some census of who is on the island and what they can do.

[Havok83]

They could simply choose to not be a citizen of krakoa but if you are promising people a land where they can live in peace after being targetted time and time again i don't see why they wouldn't. I dont see why they wouldn't put just as much on the line to get to kroka as real life refugees do to get to America and other countries. There will proably be exceptions of dual citizenship of course but there needs to be some census of who is on the island and what they can do.

Bc its Xavier and him being the lead of something like this is enough to be distrustful. Its incredibly naive for all these characters to blindly believe in this dream as if they can truly be at peace which is why I believe there may have been some form of mind manipulation at play to boost up Krakoa's population

[jwatson]

Bc its Xavier and him being the lead of something like this is enough to be distrustful. Its incredibly naive for all these characters to blindly believe in this dream as if they can truly be at peace which is why I believe there may have been some form of mind manipulation at play to boost up Krakoa's population

I just don't see it. The desperation is enough. from 17 million mutants to 1 million to about 198 in the span of what? 3 years? That is a lot of loss and fear and it's still fresh. The timeline says moira was 49 when genosha happened in life 10 right now she's 52. And we have already seen him recruit x-men that have been willing to die for him for no other reason then him saying "your a mutant." at least now he has a little more info to convince the heavy hitters. Also it's still the same dream of coexistence but they want their own state. No different than America or Wakanda or Nigeria. They aren't saying we don't want to deal with you but they are saying we will have a safe place that is our own while we do it and present to you a culture that shows we are a people as well.

[TOTALITY]

and just the tech alone would have taken time. So we are either in a different life which isn't the 616 as we know it or there was one huge time jump. All this seeds grew in a matter of months? An entire island? A language created. Organic technology installed. A call sent out to mutants from around the world. Its more likely we are suppose to believe this has been years in the making in this world not some overnight plan. I can't wait until we know for sure though, it's exciting.

It has been years in the making, just in the background. That’s the point of all these Moira retcons inserted deep into the past of X-Men history. There obviously has been a time jump since the last issue of Rosenberg’s Uncanny, and I’m not sure which parts would have happened just since then and which Moira had been working on for much longer, but I think at least some of that will become more clear by the end of the miniseries. I imagine part of it is that she felt like she had to wait for certain conditions to be met before launching this phase of the plan. But we’ll see... just saying that we saw her recruit Xavier pre-X-Men and Magneto circa UXM 150 for a reason; their are more revelations about the past yet to come.

[jwatson]

It has been years in the making, just in the background. That’s the point of all these Moira retcons inserted deep into the past of X-Men history. There obviously has been a time jump since the last issue of Rosenberg’s Uncanny, and I’m not sure which parts would have happened just since then and which Moira had been working on for much longer, but I think at least some of that will become more clear by the end of the miniseries. I imagine part of it is that she felt like she had to wait for certain conditions to be met before launching this phase of the plan. But we’ll see... just saying that we saw her recruit Xavier pre-X-Men and Magneto circa UXM 150 for a reason; their are more revelations about the past yet to come.

The magneto one makes sense to me because by that time he had already exhausted a lot of options if his history continued the same without moira ever interacting. So by the time Xavier and Moira approached him he would have definitely been in a place where he was more open to listen having exhausted many options as opposed to just being like "yeah i believe all this lets go." So yes i do think certain things happened exactly the same but it is more on an individual character basis than the entire x-men. Like i think Xavier would have still waited until Storm was a goddess (because people can always use people willing to stan for a person.) But it may not have been for as long as originally because they recruited her before Jean in this life.