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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Clearly it's because you don't see him running with his feet ! Checkmate !
    I mean, it's been a while since I posted "I hate you all" in a thread I guess ;p

  2. #32
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    This is what happened:

    https://imgur.com/a/OiMrIsC

    How you take from that "yeah, well clearly I can read into that that he then used his cosmic awareness." is certainly bizarre.
    It's strange at best yeah?

    The context as you note, is quite clear. Surfer clearly heard Stephen say an astral search failed. To me, "looking to other means", means just that. Esoterics failed...so Norrin calls his board to him.
    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Would you give a guy a foot massage?"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "You said clear."
    "I said it looks clear."
    "Well what's it look like now?"
    "Looks clear."

  3. #33
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    You guys keep saying that as if cosmic awareness is a real thing of which we know the rules.
    Well, yeah. We do know the rules as far as how a character's powers work, in this instance the Silver Surfer's cosmic awareness.

    So, he doesn't need to move as the scans below indicate, to search on the other side of a galaxy.

    Fantastic Four 585.1 - Surfer locates on other side of milky way galaxy.jpg

    Fantastic Four 585.2 - Surfer locates on other side of milky way galaxy.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    :-D I also didn't say he used cosmic awareness,
    Indeed, that is what you are arguing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    All the more reason not to assume he had to fly around the world to search it...
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    It's just an example. We don't actually know where he went, what he did or why.
    So, you freely admit the Surfer left to make a search, yet according to you, only used his power cosmic? Given that the above scans show he can search a galaxy away WITHOUT moving, why would he ever need his board? Why leave at all?

    Later, we have Hulk's comment, after Norrin's search:

    Silver Surfer vol. 3, Annual 5.6 - Banners comment about search.jpg

    Why would Banner be impressed by the esoteric use of the Surfer's cosmic awareness? He was remarking about how fast he conducted the search.


    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    just that it is one of the many other sensory options at his disposal. The sheer fact that he has options is why we can't say what he actually used.
    On Rumbles, we like to actually consider context, which you seem to be ignoring.


    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    We dont see him do that though. We see Peter Quill do it when piloting a starship, or Worldmind do it when plotting a jump for Nova. But all the evidence points to Surfer just freestyling. Notice how he acclerates, turns and stops on a dime all without any on panel evidence of forethought.
    Indeed, contrast that with the fact that when normally using cosmic awareness, his thought is drawn out an deliberate. Oh...and not moving at all.

    ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    I'm curious to see it.
    My suggestion? Re-read the scan posted by Pendaran...slowly. Then take note that the Surfer does not need to physically move to make a search using his cosmic awareness.
    Last edited by Cronus; 09-09-2019 at 09:50 PM.
    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Would you give a guy a foot massage?"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "You said clear."
    "I said it looks clear."
    "Well what's it look like now?"
    "Looks clear."

  4. #34
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Would you give a guy a foot massage?"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "You said clear."
    "I said it looks clear."
    "Well what's it look like now?"
    "Looks clear."

  5. #35
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Your entire "problem" is "well since technically nothing explicitly said he didn't then instead fly up and use his cosmic awareness/did some power cosmic thing, I can totally claim the comic meant to imply he did that."
    My problem is that aside from the fact that it involved a least a little flying, we don't know how he did it. You may choose to believe it involved a little flying or a lot of flying, an optical search or some other kind; but there's no way to know because he has options.

    As an analogy, consider all the time Spider-Man flips through gun fire. We know he can react to bullets in flight, but the artwork doesn't usually go out of its way to make it clear if that's what he's doing in any particular page. When he zips around like this he might be bullet-timing, but he might be aim dodging, or he might just know what spots to avoid with precog: https://tinyurl.com/y4znbowl So even though his bullet-timing speed is not in question, thanks to other feats, a panel that just shows him flipping through gunfire shouldn't be cited as proof.

    That's what this Surfer page is, an example too vague to quantify.
    Last edited by Morning; 09-10-2019 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    My problem is that aside from the fact that it involved a least a little flying, we don't know how he did it. You may choose to believe it involved a little flying or a lot of flying, an optical search or some other kind; but there's no way to know because he has options.
    He gets on the board and flies off, to suggest that he didn't fly off to do a search of the planet despite everything in the scan is to look at a posted scan and willfully ignore it.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    He gets on the board and flies off, to suggest that he didn't fly off to do a search of the planet despite everything in the scan is to look at a posted scan and willfully ignore it.
    What does "do a search" mean? In your mind, does he flying around the world? Does he visit every country individually? Does he fly straight up to get a better, but static view? Does he fly to Reed's house to borrow the "Fantastic World Scanner"?

    Since the entire question of how fast he'd need to be to accomplish this feat hinges on how much he flying he does, the fact that we have no way to infer it is the disqualifying detail.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    What does "do a search" mean? In your mind, does he flying around the world? Does he visit every country individually? Does he fly straight up to get a better, but static view? Does he fly to Reed's house to borrow the "Fantastic World Scanner"?

    Since the entire question of how fast he'd need to be to accomplish this feat hinges on how much he flying he does, the fact that we have no way to infer it is the disqualifying detail.
    So is the magic rock for sale or not? I mean you're right, I don't see any tigers around.

  9. #39
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post

    How you take from that "yeah, well clearly I can read into that that he then used his cosmic awareness."
    I have said, repeatedly, that nothing about it is clear and I don't know what he used. You guys are the ones saying he clearly did a thing that none of us actually saw. My personal reading was that the author wanted it to be enigmatic.

  10. #40
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    So is the magic rock for sale or not? I mean you're right, I don't see any tigers around.
    Given its derisive quality, it's ok if I stopped reading this before the second sentence right? Or do you, like, NEED me to feel the burn?

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    I have said, repeatedly, that nothing about it is clear and I don't know what he used. You guys are the ones saying he clearly did a thing that none of us actually saw. My personal reading was that the author wanted it to be enigmatic.
    We get it, in a scan where Doctor Strange notes esoteric scanning about isn't working and the Surfer physically calls the thing he flies around on to him to fly off on, you can say those details don't provide context and are completely ignorable because you say so.

  12. #42
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    I apologize if I missed the answer, but I feel like I've been asking for a while what precisely this feat is. If you are saying he flew far, then how far?

    EDIT: better yet, why don't we just drop it honestly? It isn't necessary right now, with Surfer's other speed feats, and the snark is getting tiresome.
    Last edited by Morning; 09-10-2019 at 03:41 PM.

  13. #43
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    We get it, in a scan where Doctor Strange notes esoteric scanning about isn't working
    Strange doesn't say esoteric scanning, in general, isn't working.

    He says his astral senses are blurred due to mystic interference. Surfer possessing numerous super-human-but-non-astral senses and a non-mystic powerset makes its relevance unclear. Obviously your personal reading can fill in the gaps with whatever you want.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    Strange doesn't say esoteric scanning, in general, isn't working.

    He says his astral senses are blurred due to mystic interference. Surfer possessing numerous super-human-but-non-astral senses and a non-mystic powerset makes its relevance unclear. Obviously your personal reading can fill in the gaps with whatever you want.
    Treating context as optional and reaching to the point of saying, in a scan, where a guy says he's going to go search the planet and flies off to do so, "well maybe he instead did X, Y or Z", is not much of an argument, and repeating the words "personal reading" do not change it into one.

    Your entire argument is you, repeating over and over "since technically it didn't actually show him not using cosmic awareness/getting a machine/doing something else, I can say those were totally meant to be how this situation should be read." He flies off, he comes back, he says he's going to search the planet. Anything else is you deciding you want to stake this out as your hill to fight on no matter how convolutedly you have to reach.

    It's a scan of a guy saying "I'm going to go look for something" and physically flying off. Everything else is you trying to claim something is "nebulous" on incredibly thin, context distorting grounds.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-10-2019 at 03:55 PM.

  15. #45
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning View Post
    Could be. Or it could be that Minority World would simply take the small percentage of atoms in Surfer's body that suffered any damage and make them the majority.
    Minority World does have limits though. It couldn't overcome/force regeneration of stuff eaten by Neo for example and there were occasions in their fight when Neo/Acacia threw attacks at Midora and he's like "Nope, that's too big," I don't think it's quite the fight winner you're pushing it as.

    I'm curious as to which feat this was.
    I was thinking of his Hungry Whip in his final exchanges with Neo/Acacia. The scale on Toriko's world is a bit hard to figure out but he definitely was more than capable of messing up an earth-sized planet.

    So yeah, I think he can hurt Surfer just fine.
    I'm still dubious. Surfer hangs out in suns and black holes with no real damage. That's pretty absurd. Midora is stupidly hard to hurt permanently and he regenerates absurdly quickly.

    All that said, did Midora ever use Back Channel? That would surely help cover the speed issue.
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