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  1. #31
    Fantastic Member Tulku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    All wrong, it turns out.
    spoilers:
    Drexelhand's guess is right. It was Dick Grayson's daughter.
    end of spoilers
    I told you: Being wrong is my superpower.
    "Age is not defined by years, but by regrets...I'm an old man now." --Fighting Yank, "Project Superpowers"

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    That's probably due to switching from what was meant to be a show continuation, to being the future of the New 52. As such, it's now been maybe 20 years since the main continuity stuff, not 40, which explains Barbara's de-aging among other things. Notably, when Tim "died" in Detective Comics, wasn't his Beyond counterpart removed at the same time? That shows it's linked to the Rebirth continuity.
    It seems more just to laziness than any other continuity reason.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    It seems more just to laziness than any other continuity reason.
    It's not, though. This explicitly isn't a continuation of the DCAU one or the previous series, it's Batman Beyond if Rebirth was its past - Barbara's younger, Gordon was Batman for the GCPD for a few months, Dick Grayson got shot in the head, Brother Eye destroyed NYC and Abel Cuvier conquered Metropolis. Jurgens has formulated his own timeline here starting enough in the future to potentially allow for the 5G things as well. There are several key differences, the first being that Bruce isn't Terry's biological father because Jurgens hated that plot device. Really, the only laziness comes at the conception of this series when Azzarello chose Terry for Futures End because he didn't know any other near future characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    That's probably due to switching from what was meant to be a show continuation, to being the future of the New 52. As such, it's now been maybe 20 years since the main continuity stuff, not 40, which explains Barbara's de-aging among other things. Notably, when Tim "died" in Detective Comics, wasn't his Beyond counterpart removed at the same time? That shows it's linked to the Rebirth continuity.
    Not really, in Beyond, the canon Tim disappeared after a Titans mission in the past and was never found. The Tim who was Batman came from an alternate future, who when he changed the past, caused Convergence to occur (by not accepting the E2 refugees) and allow reality to be rewritten by the restoration of the Modern Age into the New 52 by way of Superman Reborn and thus allow for the Doomsday Clock changes. So, when this Tim emerges in the Rebrith future, reality has been changed twice. He doesn't belong and so when his purpose is fulfilled, he gets removed. Maybe Jurgens will go back to it at some point.
    Last edited by Drexelhand; 01-29-2020 at 09:39 AM.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    It's not, though. This explicitly isn't a continuation of the DCAU one or the previous series, it's Batman Beyond if Rebirth was its past - Barbara's younger, Gordon was Batman for the GCPD for a few months, Dick Grayson got shot in the head, Brother Eye destroyed NYC and Abel Cuvier conquered Metropolis. Jurgens has formulated his own timeline here starting enough in the future to potentially allow for the 5G things as well. There are several key differences, the first being that Bruce isn't Terry's biological father because Jurgens hated that plot device. Really, the only laziness comes at the conception of this series when Azzarello chose Terry for Futures End because he didn't know any other near future characters.



    Not really, in Beyond, the canon Tim disappeared after a Titans mission in the past and was never found. The Tim who was Batman came from an alternate future, who when he changed the past, caused Convergence to occur (by not accepting the E2 refugees) and allow reality to be rewritten by the restoration of the Modern Age into the New 52 by way of Superman Reborn and thus allow for the Doomsday Clock changes. So, when this Tim emerges in the Rebrith future, reality has been changed twice. He doesn't belong and so when his purpose is fulfilled, he gets removed. Maybe Jurgens will go back to it at some point.
    That's mostly just rationalization on your part, with little if any actually being even implied in the story never mind actually being part of the plot outright. Like I said, the story itself is decent enough that it's enjoyable in its own right I just don't see a reason not to call a spade a spade when you see it. It's far less convoluted an explanation to simply believe that Jurgens either didn't have a lot of knowledge of what was done with Batman Beyond in the past or he did know and just chose not to acknowledge it in favor of his own ideas.

    But hey, if you like creating that continuity in your head, and it helps you enjoy the book more I'm all for it.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    That's mostly just rationalization on your part, with little if any actually being even implied in the story never mind actually being part of the plot outright. Like I said, the story itself is decent enough that it's enjoyable in its own right I just don't see a reason not to call a spade a spade when you see it. It's far less convoluted an explanation to simply believe that Jurgens either didn't have a lot of knowledge of what was done with Batman Beyond in the past or he did know and just chose not to acknowledge it in favor of his own ideas.

    But hey, if you like creating that continuity in your head, and it helps you enjoy the book more I'm all for it.
    It's not, though. I'm literally telling you what we've seen in the book and what Jurgens and all have said in interviews in the past. The only thing in there that's conjecture on my part is that the timeline Jurgens has been operating with could account for 5G just because his Batman retires an unknown date in the future. I mean, if you want a direct quote on the timeline from Jurgens, here you go: "What Tim provides as a character is a great opportunity to tie DC’s present into this new future we’re building, which combines elements of the Great Disaster future along with the animated Batman Beyond future."

    Look, I get what you're saying, a lot of what happened in the show happened and maybe some of what from the other comics, but it's not this book's canon. It's more like how the Death and Return of Superman happened in the New 52 but obviously now how it did in the Post-Crisis mythology.

    But hey, if you want to act like Jurgens is setting this in the other timeline despite repeatedly saying and showing otherwise but didn't have the foresight to watch a 50ish episodes of a 20 minute show for a story he's written six years on, you go for it.
    Last edited by Drexelhand; 01-29-2020 at 10:59 AM.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    It's not, though. I'm literally telling you what we've seen in the book and what Jurgens and all have said in interviews in the past. The only thing in there that's conjecture on my part is that the timeline Jurgens has been operating with could account for 5G just because his Batman retires an unknown date in the future. I mean, if you want a direct quote on the timeline from Jurgens, here you go: "What Tim provides as a character is a great opportunity to tie DC’s present into this new future we’re building, which combines elements of the Great Disaster future along with the animated Batman Beyond future."

    Look, I get what you're saying, a lot of what happened in the show happened and maybe some of what from the other comics, but it's not this book's canon. It's more like how the Death and Return of Superman happened in the New 52 but obviously now how it did in the Post-Crisis mythology.

    But hey, if you want to act like Jurgens is setting this in the other timeline despite repeatedly saying and showing otherwise but didn't have the foresight to watch a 50ish episodes of a 20 minute show for a story he's written six years on, you go for it.
    The great disaster future was the future of the cartoon series though, before he "died" Terry made references to things like Return of the Joker and elements from JL Beyond and the then ongoing Batman Beyond book meaning he was the same character who had been leading a very successful line of digital comics which were a direct continuation of the cartoon. What I've been saying all along is that he's just doing his own thing and not really caring about what came before, which is totally fine, and nothing you've said has contradicted that.

  7. #37
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    I know that Dick was recently re introduced in a revamping of his storyline with Bruce and Barbara.
    I’d that odious betrayal of Bruce’s removed, or is it still canon that he got Batgirl pregnant?
    I felt is was a repugnant interpretation of those three characters.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearman View Post
    I know that Dick was recently re introduced in a revamping of his storyline with Bruce and Barbara.
    I’d that odious betrayal of Bruce’s removed, or is it still canon that he got Batgirl pregnant?
    I felt is was a repugnant interpretation of those three characters.
    Pretty sure that was dropped for this timeline. Remember, we have a much different Dick Grayson than the original BB Dick. He's raised a kid as opposed to banging girls young enough to be his kid.

    It's a much less creepy universe. Possibly due to the creepers at DC being fired or sent to sensitivity training, thank God.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearman View Post
    I know that Dick was recently re introduced in a revamping of his storyline with Bruce and Barbara.
    I’d that odious betrayal of Bruce’s removed, or is it still canon that he got Batgirl pregnant?
    I felt is was a repugnant interpretation of those three characters.
    Dan Jurgens dropped that plotline as well as others from the cartoon that people didn't like (Warren McGinnis is Terry's biological father in this). In this, Dick Grayson has always been a son to Bruce and it seems that - if DC naming conventions are anything to go boy - his daughter Elainna is from a marriage with Huntress/Helena Bertinelli. Given that the next issue comes out in time for the Birds of Prey movie, I guess we'll see.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    In this, Dick Grayson has always been a son to Bruce and it seems that - if DC naming conventions are anything to go by - his daughter Elainna is from a marriage with Huntress/Helena Bertinelli. Given that the next issue comes out in time for the Birds of Prey movie, I guess we'll see.
    That's an interesting theory, can you expand on your thinking there? It's certainly a possibility based on either New Earth or New 52 -- though not the 'go to' option -- so I'm intrigued how you got that from "naming conventions"?

  11. #41
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    Ty...I may revisit the series with those awful elements removed.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearman View Post
    Ty...I may revisit the series with those awful elements removed.
    Yeah... Bruce Timm and Paul Dini did a lot of great stuff with the DCAU, but certain things were just awful. The BrucexBabs thing being front and center.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    That's an interesting theory, can you expand on your thinking there? It's certainly a possibility based on either New Earth or New 52 -- though not the 'go to' option -- so I'm intrigued how you got that from "naming conventions"?
    Well, the way I see it is, Bruce and Selina have a daughter named Helena Wayne. The name Helena isn't exactly Selina but it's close enough that you can tell who her mother is. Now, unless Helena Wayne moves from Earth 2, the only Helena in Earth 0 is Helena Bertinelli, who during Grayson was Dick's best friend and in Futures End, the love of his life. I don't know how their interactions have been during Rebirth, but if we go by the same convention, Helena -> Elainna.

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member HunterX's Avatar
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    I dont care about this Batwoman Beyond stuff, can the book go back to being about Terry Mcginnis aka Batman Beyond...:

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterX View Post
    I dont care about this Batwoman Beyond stuff, can the book go back to being about Terry Mcginnis aka Batman Beyond...:
    It probably will next issue. The issue after that seems to be starting a globe trotting adventure in the vein of Batman vs. Dr. Darrk, this time with Batman vs. Mr. Zero.

    It is intriguing to note though that unless this series is cancelled abruptly, this volume of Batman Beyond has become the longest running volume of the series and has gone on longer than the original run of Spider-Man 2099.

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