Do the best women of Marvel come from the X-Men brand?

[Hybrid]

All of the shilling Captain Carol got in the comics and especially the MCU has been pointed out as being rather hollow, as it only came about due to film rights (that are thankfully no longer an issue). It's pointed out that the X-Women were far more celebrated and beloved than Carol, and were treated as such by Marvel until sometime in the '10s when the MCU took precedence over all else. This may have stemmed from Chris Claremont's iconic run, where he set out to include strong female characters like never before, to which he succeeded, and has since been the norm. Hell, even Carol owes a lot to Claremont. Make of that what you will.

Reading off the amount of strong female characters who come from X-Men is pretty long. It goes:

• Jean Grey
• Polaris
• Storm
• Kitty Pryde
• Mystique
• Rogue
• Emma Frost
• Dazzler
• Karma
• Magik
• Dani Moonstar
• Wolfsbane
• Magma
• Rachel Summers
• Psylocke
• Jubilee
• M
• Blink
• Domino
• Stepford Cuckoos
• X-23
• Armor
• Pixie
• Hope Summers
• Honey Badger/Scout

Just to name some.

It seems a combination of being a female mutant will make you a top-tier asskicker, and an awesome one at that. Coincidentally, another iconic heroine that isn't a mutant is another one that Marvel didn't have access to, that being the Invisible Woman.

I think the MCU has kinda suffered from this, and I know it's been complained about in the past that the movies were lacking great and memorable heroines people liked. In reality, I think it might have to do with the fact that the best ones were locked away from them by being part of the X-brand. It'll be interesting to see how the situation is when they come to the MCU. In fact, looking past the movies and into the game side, there's the Marvel vs. Capcom games, where all the female character representatives on the Marvel side before the crappy Infinite were X-Women barring the sole exception of She-Hulk.

So really, are the best Marvel female characters X-Women?

Discuss.

[loke13]

I mean Sue deserves a medal from putting up with Reed for so many years. So i'd say she pretty high up there on the list with X-Women

[Wiccan]

The fact that 90% of the posts like that are about comparing the X-women with Carol just shows how the push for her was actually successful lol.

[Glio]

But Kate Bishop isn't a mutant.

[Dthirds3]

Being as generous as possible for the avengers and inhumans it's a 85/15 split in the xmen favor.

[Beaddle]

Grace Rdndolph once said the best women of comics comes from the x brand. this is one of the few times she was right. this is another one of fox x-men movies failings. they had all these female characters and they just put focus on mystique because Jlaw was a big star

[Riv86672]

The fact that 90% of the posts like that are about comparing the X-women with Carol just shows how the push for her was actually successful lol.

^^^very true!

Thing is, female mutants are going to dominate any best AND worst, and any other Marvel female-centric list because there are just so MANY of them.

It’s like asking who the best hockey players in the NHL are and pointing out white men are the dominant demographic.

[Beaddle]

Fair point. Heck, my favorite female superhero is X-23. Thing is, I just don't think that X-Men has a monopoly on the best female characters. Heck, they don't even have the most iconic female superhero at all. That would be DC's Wonder Woman, who doesn't really have a rival.

I never said they have a monopoly on it. having the presumed best does not mean you have a monopoly, to be honest, I think it is split between X-Men females and batman females. Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Thalia, Zantana, Batgirl and Batwoman.

Kinda interesting that Marvel never really got their own Wonder Woman, the way they have Spider-Man as an answer to Superman (although maybe they can leverage the success of the Captain Marvel movie to put Carol Danvers there?). On the X-Men, Wolverine is the only one who's had great success as a solo character.*

Rogue actually has more presence and acknowledgement in the media and geek culture than Carol. Her billion dollar movie can be easily dismissed as another processed mcu product with no lasting longevity even Iron Man can still be seen as such to batman and spiderman because he lacked prominence in comics and other media for decades.

there is something about carol that has never clicked. first in the comics, now in the movies. rogue steals her power in the comics but people ended up liking rogue more than carol, second her movie comes out, the actress does not do a good job a it and she somehow created controversies everywhere she went, many find her unlikable too so is the character. It was the same feedback in marvel vs capcom with carol.

I know you don't know much about marvel comics but Sue Storm, Storm and Phoenix would have more claim as the wonder woman of marvel than carol ever would. Even Kitty prdye and they don't have a disney billion dollar movie as back up.

On the X-Men, Wolverine is the only one who's had great success as a solo character.*

Deadpool, Magneto? X-Men are not meant to be solos they are supposed to be xmen. a plural. they mostly work best that way because xmen was created as a comic soap opera. it' s like saying luke or han solo works better as a solo character? what most xmen characters have like kitty pryde, rogue, gambit, emma frost, nightcrawler, deadpool, storm or cable or even Dazzler is a strong cult following.

Many xmen characters like Cable, Magneto, Gambit, Cyclops/Phoenix, Bishop, Storm, Emma would have found even more success as solos far more than mcu characters if Fox had a full brain or disney had the rights to xmen first and gave them the avengers set up but that is not how xmen is meant to operate either so it can be very tricky.

*Granted, X-23 is primarily a solo character or small team one, too, but, despite standing on her own two feet as her own character, I don't think she's quite hit superstar status yet and is seen as a Wolverine spinoff.

She seems more liked than Carol though that mcu is pushing to be their wonder woman.

James Mangold should have just made his X23 movie. if he did, carol won't be in the discussion at all

[powerpax]

Rogue actually has more presence and acknowledgement in the media and geek culture than Carol. Her billion dollar movie can be easily dismissed as another processed mcu product with no lasting longevity even Iron Man can still be as such to batman and spiderman.

Yeah, the kids will be forgetting Iron Man any day now thanks to Incoming Batman #7.

there is something about carol that has never clicked first in the comics, now in the movies. first rogue steals her power in the comics but people ended up liking rogue more than carol, second her movie comes out, the actress does not do a good job a it and she somehow created controversies everywhere she went, many find her unlikeable too.

I've definitely never heard these talking points before. I'm sure you're right tho, the Rogue solo movie is on the way.

[WebLurker]

I never said they have a monopoly on it. having the presumed best does not mean you have a monopoly, to be honest, I think it is split between X-Men females and batman females. Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Thalia, Zantana, Batgirl and Batwoman.

Yeah, can see Batman having a good claim to it.

Rogue actually has more presence and acknowledgement in the media and geek culture than Carol.

Have you ever been introduced to the Skeptical Hippo?

Her billion dollar movie can be easily dismissed as another processed mcu product with no lasting longevity even Iron Man can still be seen as such to batman and spiderman because he lacked prominence in comics and other media for decades.

No.

there is something about carol that has never clicked. first in the comics, now in the movies. rogue steals her power in the comics but people ended up liking rogue more than carol, second her movie comes out, the actress does not do a good job a it and she somehow created controversies everywhere she went, many find her unlikable too so is the character. It was the same feedback in marvel vs capcom with carol.

Echo chambers aren't a good place to get your info.

I know you don't know much about marvel comics...

I know you don't know much about me, case in point.

...but Sue Storm, Storm and Phoenix would have more claim as the wonder woman of marvel than carol ever would. Even Kitty prdye and they don't have a disney billion dollar movie as back up.

Maybe, although I have serious reservations about F4's relevance in the here and now and Phoenix is a piece of the X-Men puzzle (as is Kitty Pryde). Captain Marvel is her own brand and I think could become Marvel's Wonder Woman. Not a given and that remains to be seen, but a possibility. Considering she's going to be a big player in the MCU going forward, that just might happen. (Say what you will about the Marvel movies, but they are the kingmakers for characters right now.)

Deadpool, Magneto? X-Men are not meant to be solos they are supposed to be xmen. a plural. they mostly work best that way because xmen was created a comic soap opera. it' s like saying luke or han solo works better as a solo character? what most xmen characters have like kitty pryde, rogue, gambit, emma frost, nightcrawler, deadpool, storm or cable or even Dazzler is a strong cult following.

Many xmen characters like Cable, Magneto, Gambit, Cyclops/Phoenix, Bishop, Storm, Emma would have found even more success as solos far more than mcu characters if Fox had a full brain or disney had the rights to xmen first and gave them the avengers set up but that is not how xmen is meant to operate either so it can be very tricky.

Forgot about Deadpool then. Yeah, good point. Actually, come to think of it, he became his own thing even more the Wolverine. Obvious question from all this, can a "Wonder Woman" character be a team character first and foremost or should they have to be a solo one to get the title?

She seems more liked than Carol though that mcu is pushing to be their wonder woman.

?

James Mangold should have just made his X23 movie. if he did, carol won't be in the discussion at all

Yeah, he should've been able to make his movie, but since Fox and Marvel Studios were separate entities at the time, X-23 getting on the big screen as the lead would have nothing to do with Captain Marvel not getting her own thing. Heck, I'd love to see both get their own series down the line.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I mean Sue deserves a medal from putting up with Reed for so many years. So i'd say she pretty high up there on the list with X-Women

The comicbook character Storm is pretty high up the list with X-Women for putting up with the comicbook character Dr. Doom for many years, alright.

The character deserves a medal for that.

[Zelena]

I think a lot of people who like reading X-men comics don’t know very well female characters outside X-brand.

Who knows the strong and reliable Gamora? The rash and greedy Bêlit? There may be less of them than X-women, it doesn’t mean they are less interesting.