Do the best women of Marvel come from the X-Men brand?

[Ricochet Rita]

You could add Madelyn to the outback era. She was on the team but not on the missions (most of the time).

OMG, how could I forget good old Maddy, SHAMEONME! I knew there was something wrong when I was taking attendance to the Outback X-Women, I was sure they were more than the X-Men, but I got fifty-fifty instead No, I was right, it was 5:4. I'm so sorry, Maddy.

The funny thing is Claremont would likely be accused of being an SJW and "forcing diversity" and "sidelining male characters" in our current climate.

That said he was far more nuanced about it and made it organically part of the story.

Hear, hear!

We wouldn't be discussing issues of diversity if wasn't for his exceptional approach to the topic.

Hear, hear!

That being said, there are great female Marvel characters outside the X-brand, I love several of them. But X-Women are a whole lot more than them, and usually better (as characters, not necessarily more powerful, any need).

[terrancejameson]

All that article does is lightly touch on something which informs your personal take - that Carol is in play in part because the X-Men were not. That's nice, and? In other news, water is wet. But that fact does nothing to counter the fact that Carol is and has been a power match for the X-women in question for over 30 years, and also a popular character with readers for decades, growing in prominence over time. It does nothing to counter the fact that the larger push of her character also pre-dates the MCU. All of which makes her as uniquely suited to her current role in the MCU franchise as any X-woman.



Of course you don't, because then the claim that Carol has been unfairly made prominent only recently - and overpowered specifically to dethrone and disenfranchise the women of the X-Men - completely disintegrates. All of that is untrue.



That doesn't change the fact that even if they were there and when they are, Carol will remain one of the most powerful women in the Marvel Universe, as she has been for decades. Thanks to, yet again, X-writer Chris Claremont.



And with that comment, your relevance in this discussion ends.

I didn’t reply directly to you that last because you purposely sidestepped the points I personally made in order to feel an attack on Carol’s behalf. I feel you deserve a response this time. It’s not okay to misrepresent someone’s points and then proceed with your argument as we’re actually talking about the same thing. It’s funny because you manage to do exactly what Carol does to Monica in the scans I posted many pages ago about their talk about the name change.

Let me clue you in on the timeline of events. You can fact check for yourself after this. Hybrid mentions he has issue with her push as the end all be all. Is point was simply that she was pushed as this ultimate Heroine because the X-women weren’t available. I agreed. I even posted a link to an article that suggested as much. That’s it, that’s all. Hybrid’s point is valid. That’s legitimate cause to not fall head over heels in love with Carol. You all are missing that point. There’s no and on that point. You keep looking for a reason to say it’s solely “I hate women” and you won’t find it. I’ve personally admitted that Brie Larson DID received rape and death threats for those reasons. What more do you want? That was all Hybrid was saying. I agreed with him. I went further with my points and you didn’t even try to touch them.


I went a lot further. I made mention of how white women routinely dismiss black women the same way they say white men dismiss them, their feelings, their issues and everything else. I also posted a scan of Monica attempting to have a discussion with Carol about the name change and how she would’ve liked a heads up. That was Monica’s point. What did Carol do? She changed the subject and started telling Monica she had many names she could choose from. What the **** does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Not only did that not have anything to do with Monica’s point, Carol had to be reminded that she also has many other name she could’ve chosen. But in classic white feminists fashion she didn’t bother to hear anything the black woman in front of her was saying other that what she wanted to hear.

To make matters worse the link to that article I posted earlier with Kelly Sue DeConnick giving her take on Captain Marvel makes mention of Storm and Jean Grey three different times. Why wouldn’t she? Storm and Phoenix are arguably Marvel’s most iconic females. But she also doesn’t mention Monica Rambeau once, but she mentioned Carol is the sixth person to don the name. Suffice it all to say that she had no problem overlooking Monica Rambeau (a black woman) just like Carol didn’t.

I never said Carol wasn’t deserving of a place in the MCU. I said she wasn't deserving of the place she was given or the recognition that came with it. Kelly Sue DeConnick mentioned Storm three times because no one in their right minds would look at her notable career as a superhero and not want another heroine to match it. You played yourself thinking we were talking about the same things.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Short answer: YES. To a great extent thanks to Chris Claremont.

Well said and agreed.

I do like some of the non-X ladies, like Crystal & Misty Knight, but CC knew how to write the X-ladies in a way that strongly resonated with me. Especially Storm, Psylocke & Rogue. A whole other league imho.

Female Geeks Share Their Love of Chris Claremont's X-Men

[starduck]

Yes. 10chars

[Lapsus]

Outside Susan, the most relevant female characters in Marvel come from the X-Men brand.

[phoenixzero23]

Not only of Marvel but of all comics.

[RamaBird]

The fact that those trying to argue the XWomen aren't that important NEED to combine the females of all the other Marvel franchises (Avengers, Inhumans, FF, Spidey) to compete with the X roster says it all!

Outside the X-women, the most complex group of women is from Batman and his allies and rogues.

[From The Shadows]

Sorry but for me Monica Rambeau aka Cap Marvel/Photon/Spectrum, She -Hulk and Mockingbird surpass some of the X-Ladies IMHO. X-Women dont have anyone like She-Hulk among the X-Women who drinks beer and carries her men under her arm like a briefcase. You dont know how much that meant to me as this little girl tomboy back in the 80s. I mean pre-southern belle Rogue wasn't even like this, though she also was refreshing because she wasn't overly beautiful when she first joined and the kiss mineavure but that was short******d as only 6 years later she became a belle and sex symbol. Have we ever saw an X-Woman drink a beer? As much as I love Claremont and as much as his women were strong I could tell he was sometimes writing his dream women? If that makes sense? The women did not chase the men Well, Kitty did - the youngest strangely enough (Petey) enough. This may be hard to understand but some of the women come off as elitist in more modern comics. There is one woman in particular that I have begun to have mixed feelings about since Second Coming. That said there are a lot of great X-Women and some are my favorite characters. Betsy Braddock was this sweet soft English girl who wanted to be a warrior and I found that awesome. Though I started reading in 1983 pre-Betsy she managed to become my favorite X-Woman. I love Shadowcat too but I haven't been too keen on her more recent characterizations. I seem to love them stealthy and not too powerful where they have to use their brains and train constantly. Monica is an exceptence, of course.

[From The Shadows]

Uh... that was supposed to say short lived above and I don't know why it was blanked out with stars? I wasn't cursing.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I mean Sue deserves a medal from putting up with Reed for so many years. So i'd say she pretty high up there on the list with X-Women

The comicbook character Storm is pretty high up the list with X-Women for putting up with the comicbook character Dr. Doom for many years, alright.

The character deserves a medal for that.

[Zelena]

I think a lot of people who like reading X-men comics don’t know very well female characters outside X-brand.

Who knows the strong and reliable Gamora? The rash and greedy Bêlit? There may be less of them than X-women, it doesn’t mean they are less interesting.

[Gripstir]

The general point of "divided movie rights dictated what characters the MCU could use" applies to every character in the MCU. That was not the general point he was making.

You don't see people running around bitching about how Scott Lang sucks because if they'd had the X-rights Marvel Studios could have made Gambit instead of Ant-Man.

He's using his praise of the X-Women as a smokescreen for the weird grudge he nurses against the character of Carol Danvers.

Well technically to this point Iron Man wouldn’t have gotten made if Marvel didn’t sell the movie rights to Xmen and Spider-Man and Fantastic 4 to cover their business.

So iron man technically happened because of divided movie rights.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Spider-Man movie rights are the only ones
remaining that have NOT returned to Marvel.
Were Spidey's movie rights to return to Marvel, one of the best
women of Marvel Rogue will welcome Spidey with open arms.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Thanks for bringing the rash and greedy Bêlit to my attention https://longboxgraveyard.com/2011/11...e-black-coast/

[Zelena]

Thanks for bringing the rash and greedy Bêlit to my attention https://longboxgraveyard.com/2011/11...e-black-coast/

I like this article, 616MarvelYear is LeapYear…