Does anyone else hate when people call mutant racism in the MU a "plot hole"?

[Gamall]

I'm sure this will be a unpopular opinion but ever since I saw the movie Logan I've felt the racists of the Marvel Universe have a point. In this movie we see the mutant who has always advocated for peace between the races so incapable of controlling his abilities that he unintentionally kills those he cares for the most and inadvertently harms anybody in his vicinity. If such mutantations actually existed non-powered people would have no choice but to protect themselves and society as a whole.

Exactly. The parallels between mutants and real life minorities is just stupid. Sorry, but if some mutant will blown up the city, I would stay away from all mutants, because I don’t want to take my chances. Boo hoo I’m such a bigot. But the safety of my family is more important then my social reputation. So I kinda understand why humanity is not okay with mutants.

[Killerbee911]

Of course it's a plot hole. To consider weapons of mass destruction to be a proper minority stand ins, and to assume people shouldn't feel uncomfortable around them.
I'd like to read most of you authentic reactions when you learn your child goes to school with a kid that can level mountains with a stare, or that you compete for a job with a telepath.

The genre is filled with bad logic. X-men is a different comic if the 5 or 10 % mutants with extremely dangerous power levels or uncontrollable powers kinda have their personal freedom slightly encroached on and the rest mutants who can control their powers or less dangerous are around everyone like normal. That is a still interesting comic where Omega and Alpha mutants, Telepaths and other mutants deemed dangerous are slight more restricted than other mutants but X-men purposely has the plot hole for tradition sake and because logical measures make for less interesting actions comics. If you grew up all your life with mutants under control never doing any real harm why would humans be scared of them?.

Since we don't have real life example then most close example I think of is infectious diseases look a disease like HIV/AIDS when it first came out people treated people with the disease badly. Now today it is much better of course there is still fear but a kid who is know to have HIV can attend school. Would some parents protest them or pull their kids out? Yes. Would some parents tell their kids never to go anywhere near that kid? Yes. It is not perfect comparison but you give example situation where there is a deadly thing and humans learn more about it and some of them would be fine around it.This stuff is more balanced in real life with a wider range of reaction things. It isn't just I hate mutants or I like mutants. It would be I fine with mutants but you can't date one,It would be I think telepaths are scary but I am fine with other mutants, It would be I am fine with human looking mutants but hate the freakish looking ones etc. It would be as simple was we make in these topics.It is more complex than they make it seem.

[Star_Jammer]

Comparing HIV/AIDS to mutants is extremely weird.

HIV can’t spontaneously kill people around the person that gets infected, but we’ve seen plenty of stories of mutants developing powers that do.

What we did or did not know about HIV/AIDS "back in the day" was due to a complete lack of knowledge. What people do or do not know about developing mutant powers is at the whim of a writer.

[Killerbee911]

Comparing HIV/AIDS to mutants is extremely weird.

HIV can’t spontaneously kill people around the person that gets infected, but we’ve seen plenty of stories of mutants developing powers that do.

What we did or did not know about HIV/AIDS "back in the day" was due to a complete lack of knowledge. What people do or do not know about developing mutant powers is at the whim of a writer.

It is just a general comparison nothing in real life is one for one comparison ,To get a real-life comparsion you would need a composite of different things.The comparison just supposed to give you some elements of the situation it obviously can't be all it doesn't need to be exact just show on limited way how it might work in real life.Saying that some mutants powers can do this or that take doesn't away from the point. For powers like those, why do you assume that they wouldn't be logic countermeasures for it? Marvel has power dampeners If the fiction wants every mutant could have a power dampener that lowered their power to a safe range. We natural assume bad because every story goes that way for drama but the more realistic thing would be things in places measures would be in place to make mutants and humans feel safe.

It is kinda bad fiction for bigger drama to make stuff more dramatic and have more action. I am pretty sure Beast made Rogue a power dampener so she can get freaky with Gambit. They could mass-produce dampeners and you don't have an as big fear factor. The dampeners could just lower their powers to a safe range and completely not shut them down. But mutants need to be dangerous to keep telling the X-men stories as is, If we have humane measures for mutants is kinda boring story.

[Star_Jammer]

It is just a general comparison nothing in real life is one for one comparison

Which is kind of my overall point.

We can't even fathom how we'd react if mutants were real. Anyone who says they are able to, I take with a big grain of salt.

[myownlittleusername]

Which is kind of my overall point.

We can't even fathom how we'd react if mutants were real. Anyone who says they are able to, I take with a big grain of salt.

Same goes for supers in general though.

[Star_Jammer]

Same goes for supers in general though.

Well, yeah. We have to do a lot of suspension of disbelief..."because superhero comics".

It's entertaining to think that nearly all mutants/other powered people would be benevolent (or at least "neutral"), but my personal experience of 35 years leads me to believe a "real life" scenario would see a lot of those people abuse their powers.

Maybe that's overly pessimistic, but we'll never really know for sure.

[Killerbee911]

Well, yeah. We have to do a lot of suspension of disbelief..."because superhero comics".

It's entertaining to think that nearly all mutants/other powered people would be benevolent (or at least "neutral"), but my personal experience of 35 years leads me to believe a "real life" scenario would see a lot of those people abuse their powers.

Maybe that's overly pessimistic, but we'll never really know for sure.

Once again it isn't one thing or the other thing. Some people would be scared BUT some people wouldn't. Some people would abuse their powers BUT some people would use their powers for good. We don't need to disprove the hate and fear to make the general point. Black People in real life are hated and fear, Gay People in real life are hated and fear, People with Aids are hated and fear to this day. What I can prove to though that from slavery to today that Black people's lives have improved in America. I can show that Gay People's lives have improved in America from since the late 90s, I can prove people with AIDs's lives have improved since its discovery. Yes, the hate and fear is still there but I can show in some amount that even though there is some bad there is also some good.

The X-men world is the reverse things have progressively gotten worse and worse in the comics, In earlier years of X-men it was never this bad. And while realistically that could happen things getting worse. The hate in some countries like the US seem clownishly out whack in comparison to the real world. It is believable that a country like Russia with rules against certain things in real life would discriminate mutants, It is harder to believe that country with Avengers and FF and real life is more balanced would do the things that it has done. I wish the X-men earth didn't feel like the world is against mutants. I wish it did a better job of showing the complex nature of hate, The US, in general, could be mostly fine but the south would a different case. In the world, The US could be more systematic hate(jobs, school, wealth disparity) with sporadic large scale violence. And someplace like Russia could ban two mutants from having a baby, Someplace in Africa could be hunting down mutants. The X-men/Marvel need a better balance imo.

I agree with mutants wanting to separate from humans because the world, in general, feels like against mutants. And just like Wakanda can be shown to be voting against mutants being nation. It can be shown that countries are actively welcoming mutants. Hopefully, the resolution of this Krakoa storyline is most of the world feeling safer for mutants because the X-men stories that fans want to see doesn't work if mutants are running for their life and facing extinction. The X-men and mutants have to be able to live in the world for the concept to work. And when even the good nations are approving the cure and allowing mutants to be hunted in their borders. That doesn't feel like mutants should be staying around in that country.

[Star_Jammer]

The funny thing about your HIV/AIDS comparison? We're allowed to "cure" HIV/AIDS.

And again...gay/black/Muslim/whatever people don't have the potential to uncontrollably blow up city blocks when they hit puberty or get upset when their ex-sex buddy dies.

Think of the havoc one telepath could wreak.

It's just not a viable comparison. That's why it's metaphor and allegory. It's on such a level that when we try to apply "real world logic", it breaks down severely.

[Killerbee911]

The funny thing about your HIV/AIDS comparison? We're allowed to "cure" HIV/AIDS.

And again...gay/black/Muslim/whatever people don't have the potential to uncontrollably blow up city blocks when they hit puberty or get upset when their ex-sex buddy dies.

Think of the havoc one telepath could wreak.

It's just not a viable comparison. That's why it's metaphor and allegory. It's on such a level that when we try to apply "real world logic", it breaks down severely.

For it to work apparently it must be exact. You are just ignoring things to be exact at this point. I can show you one case of Muslim who can be dangerous because they are extremist, I can show an example with a disease which can be dangerous, I can show people attitude changing about minorities. Show that bunch separate things that mutants are a fictional composite of and how people also react positively given time. But unless all of them together in one package apparently you don't think the point work. I am going to just agree to disagree with you on that point

Then on top that you are going with the fictional showings built on bad fiction. If Storm or Reed Richards exists why are their deserts in Africa. Why isn't most of armies and police in tech armor? It doesn't even have to be Iron Man level they are gazillions of crooks with tech armor. But they are regular police and military without better tech. You can believe the X-men can build amazing mutant island BUT forge can't build a device that humane controls mutants powers from being out of control. A world with mutants wouldn't test for mutants before they reach of age and the government would have a system to help mutants transitional safely to being a full-blown mutant that is safe. The government takes cough syrup off the market because people are using as a drug, safety proof pill bottles but mutants they would do nothing about it. Comic book logic or real-world logic tells us that no way mutants would be allowed to be dangerous in that manner. A lot of problems in comics aren't solved because they won't be as good a story to tell if they did. The X-men and Avengers making the world peaceful make sense but then you have no story. Let's be clear not testing for X-gene and not artificially inducing mutant powers in a safe area is bad fiction. Not having a method to restrain powers until they control it is bad fiction. Mutants protesting over criminal mutants being stripped of their powers isn't bad fiction but that is something they might have to go along with grudgingly.

Finally being able to cure mutants is stupid but that is how they want their fiction to work. If X-men was better storytelling they would make cure more of a legit storyline and honestly, they have touched on it little. They are mutants like Franklin Richards, Rogue, Blob, Glob Herman,Beak, even Cyclops and Surge would consider it for different reasons. You can somewhat justify a violent criminal like Sabertooth or Magneto being forced to take the cure as a public safety measure. X-men with better storytelling would touch on it. But every fictional cure storyline has to be a jackhammer where cure is forced on mutants see X-3 or the Gifted tv show as recently as Rosenberg Uncanny. They never bring up cure storyline without the threat of it being forced they always go with a minority angle and never respect the danger level of some powers. But between forcing every mutant to be cured and them treating cure as an insult to their existence is a middle ground. The middle ground tho isn't the sexy story.

[Star_Jammer]

We know that mutants have the potential to be uncontrollably dangerous when they hit puberty (or otherwise), per the narratives we've been given time and time again. We've never been given a narrative that a black man has the potential to be as equally dangerous when he hits puberty. That is the "exactness"; using what we're given and know.

Storm and Reed would be silly to get rid of the deserts in Africa; they're actually quite a vital part of the planet's ecosystem.

And "mutant controlling devices" and cures are usually plot devices for the antagonists, and met with resistance by the heroes of the story.

Are you saying it would be OK for the government to have cures and devices for dangerous mutants? Do you not realize that the X-Men have actively fought against such an idea time and time again?

[Killerbee911]

We know that mutants have the potential to be uncontrollably dangerous when they hit puberty (or otherwise), per the narratives we've been given time and time again. We've never been given a narrative that a black man has the potential to be as equally dangerous when he hits puberty.

No there is real-life false narrative that Black people are more inclined to commit a crime hence that is why we get people screaming about black on black crime at times. It is the same type of narrative that makes some cops react differently to black people. If you need this stuff to be one to one I feel sorry I can't help that. But Black Skin at times in real life might as well be Wolverine claws. If you can't see the connection between being assumed dangerous because of who you are I don't know what to say.

And "mutant controlling devices" and cures are usually plot devices for the antagonists, and met with resistance by the heroes of the story.

Yes, I am going to keep on explaining their level of bad fiction that happens to tell the action stories that happen in comics. As a comic fan it is part of the genre but Rogue was given a device so that she can shut down her powers. No mutant can logically argue against a dampening device for someone who can't control their powers. Marvel superhero fiction doesn't allow for that because if mutant can safely control their powers how do you spread the mutants are dangerous narrative. Marvel is not the only superhero universe DC exists and metahumans aren't being hunted or hated down. It is a plot device because they want to be a plot device. You could argue for different logic if you wanted.

Are you saying it would be OK for the government to have cures and devices for dangerous mutants? Do you not realize that the X-Men have actively fought against such an idea time and time again?

Again there are middle grounds in arguments. Assuming the government can responsibly use those things then yes it would be okay for the government to use them. Fictional governments always end up corrupt but real-life governments actually put in rules and can manage to consider people's rights as well. You can put in safeguards so the mutant population and humans feel safe and that don't violate mutants human rights. The X-men is so in love with the minority metaphor it forces things to keep mutants in a certain stage. The X-men and superhero comics do stuff against simple logic all the time. 90% of time the use teen students in combat they are doing something most adults would never do, Not having safety precautions for mutants makes no sense. Most real-life countries force parents to vaccinate their kids for the good of the general population, so forced vaccines not being an option but forced X-gene hospital tests and telling the parents and inform the government that is sort logical. Wouldn't a parent for their child safety and others get ready for the kid becoming a mutant? Wouldn't at 13 you would control induce mutant to releasing their powers safely or give them a device to stop them from manifesting their powers until they are ready? Don't these measures make sense to protect both the mutant and society?

[Star_Jammer]

No there is real-life false narrative that Black people are more inclined to commit a crime hence that is why we get people screaming about black on black crime at times. It is the same type of narrative that makes some cops react differently to black people. If you need this stuff to be one to one I feel sorry I can't help that. But Black Skin at times in real life might as well be Wolverine claws. If you can't see the connection between being assumed dangerous because of who you are I don't know what to say.

Even if black people were more inclined to commit crime, they're still not 1:1 as potentially dangerous as a mutant can be...

Do you get my point now?

If not, I'm just done.

[BitParallel]

Exactly. The parallels between mutants and real life minorities is just stupid. Sorry, but if some mutant will blown up the city, I would stay away from all mutants, because I don’t want to take my chances. Boo hoo I’m such a bigot. But the safety of my family is more important then my social reputation. So I kinda understand why humanity is not okay with mutants.

“Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither” I don’t know who said the quote but it’s true.

[BitParallel]

The funny thing about your HIV/AIDS comparison? We're allowed to "cure" HIV/AIDS.

And again...gay/black/Muslim/whatever people don't have the potential to uncontrollably blow up city blocks when they hit puberty or get upset when their ex-sex buddy dies.

Think of the havoc one telepath could wreak.

It's just not a viable comparison. That's why it's metaphor and allegory. It's on such a level that when we try to apply "real world logic", it breaks down severely.

Agreed! 100%