Does anyone else hate when people call mutant racism in the MU a "plot hole"?

[DragonsChi]

It's a comic book with fictional characters, with fictional powers, in a fictional world. People who spend to much time on trying to make it make sense or defend that it doesn't make sense are either bored or are in dyer need to find other outlets for their own personal frustrations.

Enjoy it for what it is, get what lessons you can from it, and move on and be happy. (In this conversation in terms of racism)
*Pays two cents to doorman*

[Chris0013]

I've said it in other thread and will say it here again....The problem with it is that they seem to make every human an anti-mutant racist. Yes... as others have said the actual main characters like the FF, Avengers, Spidey are not...but it is portrayed as every man on the street and government agents, employees, and elected officials want to wipe them all out. That is a problem to me with the writing.

In my mind...maybe 10-15% of the population would be died in the wool, all mutants are scum that need to be wiped out types. On the other end of the spectrum are another 10-15% that are of the mind that all people are individuals and should be judged on their individual merits. That big 70-80% in the middle have not made up their minds and could go either way. Someone who looses family to Magneto or some other mutant might just say "kill them all" or they might say "he alone is responsible for his actions."

As I have also said in other threads....we need to see mutants in the justice system winning where the X-Men have failed. A mutant how is attacked and kills some of his attackers...gets arrested and prosecuted for murder...until all the facts come out and it is shown he was minding his own business when racists attacked and tried to kill him. His actions are justified...not that everyone likes it. Or a mutant in a situation like Benjamin Deeds/Morph. Kicked out of school for being a mutant....and instead of running off to join the X-Men or the Brotherhood...he sues and wins based on genetic discrimination laws. Again...not everyone likes it but it sets legal precedent that (in the US at least) mutants have the same rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

[BroHomo]

It's a comic book with fictional characters, with fictional powers, in a fictional world. People who spend to much time on trying to make it make sense or defend that it doesn't make sense are either bored or are in dyer need to find other outlets for their own personal frustrations.

In in dryer sheet need :/

I've said it in other thread and will say it here again....The problem with it is that they seem to make every human an anti-mutant racist. Yes... as others have said the actual main characters like the FF, Avengers, Spidey are not...but it is portrayed as every man on the street and government agents, employees, and elected officials want to wipe them all out. That is a problem to me with the writing.

Buuuut why? Why does it bother people so much. Its not like baseline humans are a regular feature in the comics...The X-Men fight for a better world in spite of being hated and feared... it'd make sense to bump heads with bigots. If you're regular Joe Schmo who is cook with Mutants than pat yourself on the back buuuuut why would You have a significant narrative in the X-Men world?

In my mind...maybe 10-15% of the population would be died in the wool, all mutants are scum that need to be wiped out types. On the other end of the spectrum are another 10-15% that are of the mind that all people are individuals and should be judged on their individual merits. That big 70-80% in the middle have not made up their minds and could go either way. Someone who looses family to Magneto or some other mutant might just say "kill them all" or they might say "he alone is responsible for his actions."

That's a pretty rosy picture you have of the discrimination in the 616
I found this map showing countries and their racial tolerance level. As you can see id put the worldwide percentage a lil higher than 10-15% #jussayin

As I have also said in other threads....we need to see mutants in the justice system winning where the X-Men have failed. A mutant how is attacked and kills some of his attackers...gets arrested and prosecuted for murder...until all the facts come out and it is shown he was minding his own business when racists attacked and tried to kill him. His actions are justified...not that everyone likes it.

Well the X-Men aren't lawyer's and before MDay we were seeing Mutant legal victories won by mutant advocates/lawyers. But if there's no more Mutants (formerly) there's no one left to fight for or with

Or a mutant in a situation like Benjamin Deeds/Morph. Kicked out of school for being a mutant....and instead of running off to join the X-Men or the Brotherhood...he sues and wins based on genetic discrimination laws. Again...not everyone likes it but it sets legal precedent that (in the US at least) mutants have the same rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

Is there a genetic discrimination law in the 616?? The school could be protected for safety reasons as some see Mutant powers= as having a live weapon

[Chris0013]

In in dryer sheet need :/

Buuuut why? Why does it bother people so much. Its not like baseline humans are a regular feature in the comics...The X-Men fight for a better world in spite of being hated and feared... it'd make sense to bump heads with bigots. If you're regular Joe Schmo who is cook with Mutants than pat yourself on the back buuuuut why would You have a significant narrative in the X-Men world?

That's a pretty rosy picture you have of the discrimination in the 616
I found this map showing countries and their racial tolerance level. As you can see id put the worldwide percentage a lil higher than 10-15% #jussayin



Well the X-Men aren't lawyer's and before MDay we were seeing Mutant legal victories won by mutant advocates/lawyers. But if there's no more Mutants (formerly) there's no one left to fight for or with
Is there a genetic discrimination law in the 616?? The school could be protected for safety reasons as some see Mutant powers= as having a live weapon

My thing about it is the presentation that ALL humans hate mutants. Give a real world parallel. That there are people in the MU that openly say "hey...judge them individually." Look at the people in NYC the X-Men were protecting during WoTR. Did they all hate mutants before? After the X-Men protected them are they going to hate mutants after? Present both sides...and not just all the humans hate mutants...and the mutant side.

Have a human who judges all mutants by Magneto's terrorist actions be challenged by someone saying "what about judging all human by Hitler."

[Huntsman Spider]

My thing about it is the presentation that ALL humans hate mutants. Give a real world parallel. That there are people in the MU that openly say "hey...judge them individually." Look at the people in NYC the X-Men were protecting during WoTR. Did they all hate mutants before? After the X-Men protected them are they going to hate mutants after? Present both sides...and not just all the humans hate mutants...and the mutant side.

Have a human who judges all mutants by Magneto's terrorist actions be challenged by someone saying "what about judging all human by Hitler."

Or mutants judging all humans by Stryker, Trask, and their ilk? Speaking of, I think there should be more pushback not just on the outright anti-mutant bigots among humanity, but also the ones who stay silent and do nothing as said bigots plot and enact genocide against mutants. After all, there does come a time, to paraphrase Martin Luther King, Jr., when silence becomes betrayal, and perhaps even complicity, and too many humans (plus nonmutant heroes) have been complicit by virtue of their silence and inaction in the face of atrocities against mutants over the years. If mutants were to judge humans by their worst examples, it would be obviously wrong and unfair, but the same logic somehow never seems to be applied when it comes to humans judging mutants by their worst examples. Rather sickening double standard.

[Red316]

I'm sure this will be a unpopular opinion but ever since I saw the movie Logan I've felt the racists of the Marvel Universe have a point. In this movie we see the mutant who has always advocated for peace between the races so incapable of controlling his abilities that he unintentionally kills those he cares for the most and inadvertently harms anybody in his vicinity. If such mutantations actually existed non-powered people would have no choice but to protect themselves and society as a whole.

I'd like to stress that this is my opinion of the fictional reality and should not be construed as evidence that I believe it is alright for people to be bigoted or racist in the real world.

[Chris0013]

I'm sure this will be a unpopular opinion but ever since I saw the movie Logan I've felt the racists of the Marvel Universe have a point. In this movie we see the mutant who has always advocated for peace between the races so incapable of controlling his abilities that he unintentionally kills those he cares for the most and inadvertently harms anybody in his vicinity. If such mutantations actually existed non-powered people would have no choice but to protect themselves and society as a whole.

I'd like to stress that this is my opinion of the fictional reality and should not be construed as evidence that I believe it is alright for people to be bigoted or racist in the real world.

But that is the action of one man...who should be dealt with as an individual. Not the actions of one man that should condemn a whole race. In that case they could go extreme and just kill Charles....or use the drug from X-Men 3 and just depower him.

[Killerbee911]

I'm sure this will be a unpopular opinion but ever since I saw the movie Logan I've felt the racists of the Marvel Universe have a point. In this movie we see the mutant who has always advocated for peace between the races so incapable of controlling his abilities that he unintentionally kills those he cares for the most and inadvertently harms anybody in his vicinity. If such mutantations actually existed non-powered people would have no choice but to protect themselves and society as a whole.

I'd like to stress that this is my opinion of the fictional reality and should not be construed as evidence that I believe it is alright for people to be bigoted or racist in the real world.

Or Professor X could have just been put in a hospital where he could have gotten proper treatment 24/7 and nothing would happen. For comic stories to work you need big drama Professor X being pump full of drugs so he can't hurt anyone isn't as fun story. They would be protocols for mutants in real life,Comics don't have it because it doesn't make for a fun story. Most countries make every kid get shots to prevent diseases but they wouldn't be a functional non a-hole system to deal with mutants in developed countries? Stuff like mutant registration and mutant power control issues always assume the worse when there is a middle ground between restricting people rights and doing absolutely nothing. It is not a sexy story to have functioning non-abusive law to monitor superhumans but it is a possibility. The initiative/SHRA at Marvel worked there was a system training superhumans to use their powers safely but for some reason, the Champions running around without being trained or oversight is better an option.

[Chris0013]

Or Professor X could have just been put in a hospital where he could have gotten proper treatment 24/7 and nothing would happen. For comic stories to work you need big drama Professor X being pump full of drugs so he can't hurt anyone isn't as fun story. They would be protocols for mutants in real life,Comics don't have it because it doesn't make for a fun story. Most countries make every kid get shots to prevent diseases but they wouldn't be a functional non a-hole system to deal with mutants in developed countries? Stuff like mutant registration and mutant power control issues always assume the worse when there is a middle ground between restricting people rights and doing absolutely nothing. It is not a sexy story to have functioning non-abusive law to monitor superhumans but it is a possibility. The initiative/SHRA at Marvel worked there was a system training superhumans to use their powers safely but for some reason, the Champions running around without being trained or oversight is better an option.

The Initiative/SHRA was legalized super-human slavery. It was not just saying if you have powers (or just want to put on a costume) you have to be registered, trained and work with .gov oversight. It was saying if you are a super-human you will be drafted, registered, trained and work with .gov oversight whether you want to or not.

[Killerbee911]

The Initiative/SHRA was legalized super-human slavery. It was not just saying if you have powers (or just want to put on a costume) you have to be registered, trained and work with .gov oversight. It was saying if you are a super-human you will be drafted, registered, trained and work with .gov oversight whether you want to or not.

I am going to quote myself which you just quoted

Stuff like mutant registration and mutant power control issues always assume the worse when there is a middle ground between restricting people rights and doing absolutely nothing. It is not a sexy story to have functioning non-abusive law to monitor superhumans but it is a possibility. .

[Chris0013]

I am going to quote myself which you just quoted

I may have misunderstood your post. Not sure is you were advocating for the SHRA as it was or were condemning it as it was.

My point was the SHRA went too far basically enslaving all superhumans. I could see an SHRA that was regulating those who want to do the super hero thing...but leaves others alone unless their powers are a danger to themselves or others.

[Snoop Dogg]

The Initiative/SHRA was legalized super-human slavery. It was not just saying if you have powers (or just want to put on a costume) you have to be registered, trained and work with .gov oversight. It was saying if you are a super-human you will be drafted, registered, trained and work with .gov oversight whether you want to or not.

what initiative series did you read where if you had powers you were forced to fight

[Shreene]

Isn't it odd that all humans seem to know a mutant when they see one but see costumed mutates as baseline human even though said baseline human can bench a Ford F-150 or fly as if born with wings. know one bats an eye at Carol Danvers but Anna Marie... Whoa, look out!

[Chris0013]

what initiative series did you read where if you had powers you were forced to fight

Look at Cloud 9...she just wanted to use her powers to fly around and have fun. She was drafted and trained as a sniper. When the SHRA ended she tore up her registration card and took off.

[Hybrid]

Isn't it odd that all humans seem to know a mutant when they see one but see costumed mutates as baseline human even though said baseline human can bench a Ford F-150 or fly as if born with wings. know one bats an eye at Carol Danvers but Anna Marie... Whoa, look out!

To be fair, Rogue has a criminal record, doesn't she?

Anyways, that's not always true. Look at the picture in the OP. Hell, Spidey himself has been confused for a mutant before. Many of the mutants stick together, form groups and have communities, as such it might equated to being a "cultural" thing as much as a racial one. Birds of a feather and all that. I know that mutate criminals often don't like be confused for mutant, due to the stigma associated with it.

Also, again, not meant to be logical.