Does anyone else hate when people call mutant racism in the MU a "plot hole"?

[Star_Jammer]

I never said all mutants are dangerous.

I said the scary part would be not knowing which ones could be.

And yes, it’s time to move on, since you keep misrepresenting what I’m saying.

[anyajenkins]

I haven't even really mentioned mutant terrorism, which can just exacerbate the point. I've talked about uncontrollable situations in which mutants have caused death and destr

I'm definitely going to be afraid of a woman who has to rush herself into space so she doesn't destroy the Earth, just because her ex-lover dying upset her. Why am I going to be afraid of her? Because I don't know what else might set her off.

Storm is a hero. She's not a terrorist. But she is, at times, uncontrollably dangerous.

I really didn’t like that story...Storm has to send herself to space so she doesn’t destroy the world with her crying...bleh...

[jwatson]

I never said all mutants are dangerous.

I said the scary part would be not knowing which ones could be.

And yes, it’s time to move on, since you keep misrepresenting what I’m saying.

We don't know what will set anyone off. Why does anyone commit mass murders with guns, bombs, cars, and every other weapon of mass destruction they can get their hands on. Should humans be afraid of ALL humans since ANY human can kill a mass number of people. Especially in a world where you have stark technology and the million of other devices that can do larger scale damage than most mutants.

[The Quiet Councilor]

It’s less a plot hole and more a flawed premise and a very damaging one at times. Aside from the fact that using walking WMDs as stand-ins for real world minorities limits how you can portray mutants, it also perpetuates this false narrative about the inclusivity of the X-line. I think creators and editorial get so caught up in telling stories about inclusivity that they fail to examine their own efforts at practicing it which are often nonexistent. “Intersectionality” should be the name of the game when it comes to mutants. It’s easier to examine and create sympathy for the anti-mutant argument when mutants aren’t standing in for every minority group on the planet. Let’s have characters and creators from more backgrounds. Then, we can really dig into the mutant/human conflict.

[Zelena]

We don't know what will set anyone off. Why does anyone commit mass murders with guns, bombs, cars, and every other weapon of mass destruction they can get their hands on. Should humans be afraid of ALL humans since ANY human can kill a mass number of people. Especially in a world where you have stark technology and the million of other devices that can do larger scale damage than most mutants.

Mutants can hurt people without meaning it when they don't control their powers, though…

[Star_Jammer]

I really didn’t like that story...Storm has to send herself to space so she doesn’t destroy the world with her crying...bleh...

Yeah. Her getting that emotional over Wolverine is...jarring.

But it’s there.

[Huntsman Spider]

It’s less a plot hole and more a flawed premise and a very damaging one at times. Aside from the fact that using walking WMDs as stand-ins for real world minorities limits how you can portray mutants, it also perpetuates this false narrative about the inclusivity of the X-line. I think creators and editorial get so caught up in telling stories about inclusivity that they fail to examine their own efforts at practicing it which are often nonexistent. “Intersectionality” should be the name of the game when it comes to mutants. It’s easier to examine and create sympathy for the anti-mutant argument when mutants aren’t standing in for every minority group on the planet. Let’s have characters and creators from more backgrounds. Then, we can really dig into the mutant/human conflict.

That's actually a very good point. For all the talk, and it often is just that, about inclusivity when it comes to the characters that are presented and focused on in-story, it's not so easy to find on the real-world creative and editorial side of things, and there is also sadly the issue of backlash from (some) readers and fans every time there is an attempt at changing or correcting that. As for presenting the mutant/human conflict with greater nuance, depth, and shading, that would be welcome, too, especially if the issue of superpowered individuals who aren't mutants and therefore don't get quite the same level of visceral hate and fear as mutants do is raised in relation to how mutants are all too commonly treated.

[jwatson]

Mutants can hurt people without meaning it when they don't control their powers, though…

So can people who have mental diseases and lack of medication or control over themselves. What human mad scientist will create a black hole in the MU and accidentally flick it on? Or a virus that kills millions.

[gambit2051]

Not like the Inhumans were welcomed with open arms in either the Comics or in Agents of SHIELD.

The fear of spontaneously changing to a "freak" or seeing someone you care about go through a traumatic power transition, or being CAUGHT in a power activation (Ultimate X-Men #41, great issue)...

And as for a real world parallel, why are there people still afraid their child or someone they know or even they might NOT be Straight? I would say that is as close a parallel as you will find in the real-world for how "it could happen to anyone", unless you believe more people fear that about someone else's Religion than their Gender preference in Bed or their own.

Then there are the mutants the Morlocks originally took in, hated for how they looked, for not fitting in (Remember M-Town?). Sounds like communities coming together for protection because they are not the right color skin for the area apparently.

[Hybrid]

I also hate when people suggest there should be no mutant racism in the X-Books, and they should just be like any other team. I mean, goddamn, talk about undermining the very premise itself. That's their thing: Being the heroic outcasts of society. Besides, they've done many general superheroic stuff and all manner of genres, but that's the core similar to how the Avengers a collective of different heroes or how the Fantastic Four are adventurers.

If I wanted to read a Marvel book where mutant racism isn't present, I'd read... a non-mutant book.

Though, I think a lot of the resistance if from people who don't like X-Men. Similarly, those who wanted the X-Men to be excised from the MU and not be integrated into the MCU are rarely X-Men fans themselves. I find that kind of "seperate, but equal" ideology to be very ironic.

[Londo Bellian]

I've gotten heavy flak from the strongest Krakoan supporters here these past weeks, when my first serious foray into general Marvel fandom began when I started watching the "X-Men" animated series on Philippine TV as a fifth-grader, which then led to hunting the comics, and collecting the (locally-reproduced low-quality) trading cards. True, I've seen "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends" years before that, but the investment in Marvel wasn't there yet. X-Men was what made me like Marvel.

Or rather, the X-Men as depicted when I first saw them. That was my benchmark, no one else's.

[Killerbee911]

I also hate when people suggest there should be no mutant racism in the X-Books, and they should just be like any other team. I mean, goddamn, talk about undermining the very premise itself. That's their thing: Being the heroic outcasts of society. Besides, they've done many general superheroic stuff and all manner of genres, but that's the core similar to how the Avengers a collective of different heroes or how the Fantastic Four are adventurers.

If I wanted to read a Marvel book where mutant racism isn't present, I'd read... a non-mutant book.

Though, I think a lot of the resistance if from people who don't like X-Men. Similarly, those who wanted the X-Men to be excised from the MU and not be integrated into the MCU are rarely X-Men fans themselves. I find that kind of "seperate, but equal" ideology to be very ironic.

I don't think anybody says they shouldn't be ANY mutant racism but are levels to it. Is there a difference between

1. The current period in US- you can see still systematic racism but you can also see improvements and achievements for minorties
2. Slavery era- Minorites weren't thought of as humans by the masses, People had to escape those countries for a chance at a free life
3. Jim Crow/Apartheid- Slavery is gone, But it is replaced by systematic oppression in spots you could find a normal life as a minority but even though the country pretends things are fair and the laws says things are fair. The people in control make things unfair
4. Genocide state- You have to be actively afraid because there is enough strong presence in the population that is actively killing people who look like you. Either the government is not strong enough to stop that group or government is part of it

They are levels of racism. The X-men work best when they can actually live in the world and don't have flee the country they are living in. X-men work best when leaving the planet or forming mutant nation island isn't actively the best option. In terms of storytelling, the X-men themselves don't necessarily have to face mutant racism the same way other mutants do. The experiences of the Morlocks and Genoshans should be different than mutants in the X-men. Mutants in North Vainon would be treated differently from mutants in Wakanda. The big problem is the X-men became as hated the normal mutant and the focus of centralized hate in all of the stories. Which means to escalate things in the story the world has to turn on the heroes of the story at times in ways that doesn't make sense.

Yes they should be mutant racism but X-men themselves should deal with more systematic hate than outright active persecution. It should take something extreme for the X-men and mutants face global hate. X-men should be the super hero team that isn't going to be thank by people for saving things, X-men shouldn't always be the enemy of the state fighting against humans imo.

[Huntsman Spider]

I don't think anybody says they shouldn't be ANY mutant racism but are levels to it. Is there a difference between

1. The current period in US- you can see still systematic racism but you can also see improvements and achievements for minorties
2. Slavery era- Minorites weren't thought of as humans by the masses, People had to escape those countries for a chance at a free life
3. Jim Crow/Apartheid- Slavery is gone, But it is replaced by systematic oppression in spots you could find a normal life as a minority but even though the country pretends things are fair and the laws says things are fair. The people in control make things unfair
4. Genocide state- You have to be actively afraid because there is enough strong presence in the population that is actively killing people who look like you. Either the government is not strong enough to stop that group or government is part of it

They are levels of racism. The X-men work best when they can actually live in the world and don't have flee the country they are living in. X-men work best when leaving the planet or forming mutant nation island isn't actively the best option. In terms of storytelling, the X-men themselves don't necessarily have to face mutant racism the same way other mutants do. The experiences of the Morlocks and Genoshans should be different than mutants in the X-men. Mutants in North Vainon would be treated differently from mutants in Wakanda. The big problem is the X-men became as hated the normal mutant and the focus of centralized hate in all of the stories. Which means to escalate things in the story the world has to turn on the heroes of the story at times in ways that doesn't make sense.

Yes they should be mutant racism but X-men themselves should deal with more systematic hate than outright active persecution. It should take something extreme for the X-men and mutants face global hate. X-men should be the super hero team that isn't going to be thank by people for saving things, X-men shouldn't always be the enemy of the state fighting against humans imo.

That much is true, but what gets underestimated in these assessments is how quickly seeming progress and achievement for minorities can be upended and stripped away by the next election and/or the next popular political movement that promotes a kind of racial/ethnic revanche where those who feel they're the ones being robbed and victimized "take back what's rightfully theirs," which all too often spirals down into the "genocide state," as you mentioned.

[king of hybrids]

Not like the Inhumans were welcomed with open arms in either the Comics or in Agents of SHIELD.
.

While the seemingly random nature of the Inhumans does give some superficial similarity, the inherent limit to the number of Inhuman descendants among the baseline population puts them more in the general hate and fear baselines have for non-Mutant superheroes (the fear that they’ll take over as a super powered aristocracy, vs the fear that mutants will take over as their replacement) which is on a constant simmer in place of the constant boil of anti-mutant sentiment

[Zelena]

I also hate when people suggest there should be no mutant racism in the X-Books, and they should just be like any other team. I mean, goddamn, talk about undermining the very premise itself. That's their thing: Being the heroic outcasts of society. Besides, they've done many general superheroic stuff and all manner of genres, but that's the core similar to how the Avengers a collective of different heroes or how the Fantastic Four are adventurers.

If I wanted to read a Marvel book where mutant racism isn't present, I'd read... a non-mutant book.

Though, I think a lot of the resistance if from people who don't like X-Men. Similarly, those who wanted the X-Men to be excised from the MU and not be integrated into the MCU are rarely X-Men fans themselves. I find that kind of "seperate, but equal" ideology to be very ironic.

It's true that I haven't read the worse of persecution towards mutants but I read what has existed before that and it was much more nuanced than "racism": puzzlement, distrust, wonder, fear… The stories were richer, more varied.
I suppose it won't never go back to that and I regret it.