[Spoiler] Batman 78 Preview and Discussion thread

[Ansa]

I will argue against this. It's the same way how you would look at and describe your relationship with your own family; parents, siblings, cousins, etc., differently than you would with your significant other. They both are very important in your life, but there may be times when your love for your S.O. may feel stronger or hurt harder.

Do you have kids? Because, no offense, but it doesn't sound like it.

[Ansa]

Fans keep saying how this could change Batman. We've seen them living together in love for over a year can you guys tell me how that changed Batman? Those issues what was so great aside from Batman becoming even more the bat, being less decisive and becoming more isolated [oh I forgot he went on the one date]
I'm particularly curious to hear your thoughts @lilyrose

I also don't remember reading the issues before 50 and thinking to myself: "This is a Bruce Wayne/Batman I have never seen before, I want more of that!"

Yeah, he went on one date. It was one of the better issues of this run, but still nothing to write home about.

[millernumber1]

Which is why I phrased it the way I did. You kinda missed the point of my post.

I'm not missing the point - I'm trying to phrase what I believe King's point is - not that Bruce "finally has a family" - I think it's clear from Tec 1000 and many other comics he's written that King loves the Batfamily - but that he'll have a wife. Which is a different type of growth - I don't want to start arguments about which is "greater" or "more important" or "better" - I just am saying that the growth that comes from marriage is a different growth than that of children. And that difference is what I am excited about.

You don't have to sell me on loving the Batfamily. Until King's run, as many people have pointed out about me, I loved the Batfamily much more than Bruce. I view what King's done for me is help me really care about Bruce as much as I care about his family. It's an addition, not a replacement, for me. Like learning to love tomatoes but still loving carrots - I'm not stopping my love of carrots, I just have more things I love.

[Ansa]

I'm not missing the point - I'm trying to phrase what I believe King's point is - not that Bruce "finally has a family" - I think it's clear from Tec 1000 and many other comics he's written that King loves the Batfamily - but that he'll have a wife. Which is a different type of growth - I don't want to start arguments about which is "greater" or "more important" or "better" - I just am saying that the growth that comes from marriage is a different growth than that of children. And that difference is what I am excited about.

You don't have to sell me on loving the Batfamily. Until King's run, as many people have pointed out about me, I loved the Batfamily much more than Bruce. I view what King's done for me is help me really care about Bruce as much as I care about his family. It's an addition, not a replacement, for me. Like learning to love tomatoes but still loving carrots - I'm not stopping my love of carrots, I just have more things I love.

Except that I wasn't even talking about whetever the love for a spouse is different from that for a child in that post. Your addition had little to do with what the issue I was talking about.

[Starrius]

Do you have kids? Because, no offense, but it doesn't sound like it.

I wouldn't go around making responses to people with assuming stuff about their personal lives on the in
I wouldn't want that done to me either (that whole..treat others like I want to be treated thing)
that's some messed up crap to do

[dietrich]

Fans keep saying how this could change Batman. We've seen them living together in love for over a year can you guys tell me how that changed Batman? Those issues what was so great aside from Batman becoming even more the bat, being less decisive and becoming more isolated [oh I forgot he went on the one date]
I'm particularly curious to hear your thoughts @lilyrose

Well we got lots of nice art with Bruce in his underpants which I appreciate very much.
I also like how no one is answering your question lol

[millernumber1]

Another thing that annoys me, both about King and some fans, is the idea that Bruce would finally have a family again if he marries Selina. He already has a family. He had one for several decades now. They are literally called bat-family. You don't need a spouse to have a family.

Except that I wasn't even talking about whetever the love for a spouse is different from that for a child in that post. Your addition had little to do with what the issue I was talking about.

I was responding to you saying that "King and some fans" are excited that "Bruce would finally have a family again if he marries Selina." I don't know what, exactly, you were talking about if it's not that.

[Starrius]

Well we got lots of nice art with Bruce in his underpants which I appreciate very much.
I also like how no one is answering your question lol

I especially like the art of Selina
she looks very beautiful and sexy
it's not shape of her body.....it's her face and her green eyes
I also like that short bobbish hairstyle......I never liked the short masculine hairstyles that she had
I always preferred a long haired Selina ....wouldn't mind her hair if it was all in one length to just her neck

[dietrich]

I especially like the art of Selina
she looks very beautiful and sexy
it's not shape of her body.....it's her face and her green eyes
I also like that short bobbish hairstyle......I never liked the short masculine hairstyles that she had
I always preferred a long haired Selina ....wouldn't mind her hair if it was all in one length to just her neck

cheese cake featuring women is the norm for comics that's why Bruce's stood out for me but yes Selina looked very nice. Say what you will this run has had beautiful art. King has fought for it, editors have left over and there's been bad blood with family men being forced to cancel family holidays just to be dragged back to draw a comic but gosh darn the art is gorg.

[Ansa]

I was responding to you saying that "King and some fans" are excited that "Bruce would finally have a family again if he marries Selina." I don't know what, exactly, you were talking about if it's not that.

I was talking about having a family. You are talking about different kinds of love.

[Starrius]

cheese cake featuring women is the norm for comics that's why Bruce's stood out for me but yes Selina looked very nice. Say what you will this run has had beautiful art. King has fought for it, editors have left over and there's been bad blood with family men being forced to cancel family holidays just to be dragged back to draw a comic but gosh darn the art is gorg.

I meant ...it's not just the shape of her body

I wish the writing was at least half as good as the art

[Arnoldoaad]

It's not the nothing carries on from run to run - it's that only the parts the creator wants to play with move on. Snyder mostly ignored Damian, King uses him sparingly, but to good effect. Tomasi likes the character and uses him a decent amount. It's clearly a choice each is making. My basic point is that it's not necessarily true that any specific element of King's run/theory of Batman will carry over, and whatever does carry over is due to the next creator having an affinity for that element.

ETA: Seli thna and Bruce being together might be a new status quo after King leaves, but that doesn't necessarily mean the cutesy Bat/Cat nicknames will stick around, or the "has to be happy" theme will continue. The next team will put their own spin on it that may or may not shift it frome things people complain about in this thread and others to something they enjoy.

I understand your point but I think you are confusing a function over a form
assuming that Bat&Cat stay together after King leaves(this including the Batman and Catwoman title)
Will the next batman writer awknowledge it?
the answer will always be yes
now
will that be a primary element of the writing of that next writer?
the answer is always "maybe"

It doesnt really matter if the writer has an affinity or not over that particular type of story but rather if he wants to use it and how he wants to use it.

I agree that most probaly they wont call themselves Cat and Bat anymore
but that is not really important

I'll quibble a little bit about Snyder's use of Thomas Wayne and the Miagani being good examples to your point. Morrison and Snyder were both riffing on the old story of a Thomas Wayne being in Willowwood Hospital in different ways. Snyder's re-casting of Barbatos and the Miagani tribe for Metal is fundamentally incompatible with Morrison's use of them in RoBW.

I disagree with this point I dont think that they re incompatible I just think that Snyder changed the concept to create something new
but there was nothing that contradicted how Morrison conceptualize it

if anything I think Snyder really improved it as it retroactively conected everything to the dark multiverse

The rest of it, sure. Some things move along, others get lost in the shuffle for a variety of reasons (I'd bet money that Penguin having had an actual penguin for a girlfriend will not be addressed again).

I found this funny for our conversation for a number of reasons but mainly because before the revelation I always thought that it the "girlfriend" was the mother of his son(Black sun) who appeared on Batgirl and also was the same blind woman who died on Penguin: Pain & Prejudice(the best penguin story ever made) and maybe had survived or something

and yet it was just his pet and most likely none of these stories are connected at all
but that doesnt necesarilly mean that any of these stories are not cannon

so yes I agree most likely no one will adress again that Bane killed Penguin's favorite penguin
just like no one is addressing that he has a son(hell this wasnt even a thing on redhood when penguin was actually an important part of it)

The Duke thing is weird - the back ups in ASB just kind of stopped, the Signal mini seems to have done nothing to move the character on, and now he's in Batman and the Outsiders? It seemed like his original intent in the story related to Claire/Gotham Girl, but he's not yet been part of City of Bane (where she features somewhat prominently).

I feel like the reason was because Batman: Rebirth #1 was supposed to act as a prelude to both of their books, King's Batman and Snyder's All-Star Batman, the latter in which Duke played an extremely major role in. If anything, I think its more likely Duke being in King's run was moreso editorially mandated, as in he doesn't have a real major part to play, but that he's just simply another part of the Batfamily that he can use if he needs another one to fit that role.

I do not remember Duke being important on ASB
I find ths suspicious because neither King or Snyder use him after Metal
and the Outsider's comic was delayed "allegedly because of something related to Doomclock" which makes me think that there was a plan, the plan got delayed or cancelled and thats why he disappeared

I also don't think his run really gets going until I Am Suicide, as I Am Gotham execution wise just feels like a first arc, mostly separated and not sure exactly how much will come into play later or not. (There's also supposedly word-of-god that Geoff Johns ghost wrote the first arc of every one of the Rebirth books, so that might also play into things if true, but I'd still mostly label that as a rumour)

I heard the same rumor
and I concur, I am Suicide is definitely the real start to his run but dont think that this means he didnt had a plan to use Duke later because he does appear in I am Bane briefly, and the funny thing about it is that he appears to tell the other Robins to not face Bane and obey Batman
AND THEN NOTHING
usually this kind of position would be to make him go save the robins later, but he doesnt, Cat saves them.

Its a very weird thing

[Aahz]

Yeah, he went on one date. It was one of the better issues of this run, but still nothing to write home about.

Imo the whole Batman Catwoman Relationship thing was was way better done in the Bronze Age.

"A Night on the Town" (Batman #392) beats his whole Run in this regard.

[dietrich]

I meant ...it's not just the shape of her body

I wish the writing was at least half as good as the art

It's clear the memo was clearly to make her look the best she's ever looked if not there won't have been so much emphasis on the art to the extent where people are losing their jobs. Which just made a pretty art leave a bad taste. This whole run is just so shallow and superficial.

If only they put half as much effort/care into the writing/characterisations as they did/do the art this could have been a masterpiece rather than a meme and a drinking game [for me and my work mates at least]

[Ansa]

Imo the whole Batman Catwoman Relationship thing was was way better done in the Bronze Age.

"A Night on the Town" (Batman #392) beats his whole Run in this regard.

It really was.