[Spoiler] Batman 78 Preview and Discussion thread

[Korath]

So, some people seemed to liked the dialogue here ? I'm astonished, because I found it utterly atrocious. I don't know what those things are, but they are certainly not human beings. And the pretty art did nothing to ease the issue on me. It was utteerly atrocious, and if it's what will be the Bat/Cat title, I'll be even glader to skip it than I'm already is.

Still praying for everything that King did to be gently pushed to the side soon, but I've the feeling the guy as basically killed Batman. No sane writer would want to take over after him, too much **** and disgusting decisions to deal with, to much of a mess to untangle. At this point, DC may as well stop publishing a Batman book for a time, just to let the toxicity of King's run dissipate a little, IMHO.

[Ansa]

I mean, does it HAVE to be the worst thing that's ever happened to him feel this bad or turn out this way? I don't necessarily think so, circumstances happen and after a lifetime of bad things happening, something not as big could be the thing that breaks a person.

Also its worth remembering, it wasn't simply just spiralling into the deep depression because of her leaving him. It was the rest of Bane's manipulation that took advantage of his weakened mental state to drive him over the edge. It may of been the catalyst, but its not the only explanation.

Like back during Damian's death, he had a fairly similar breakdown at first. There just also wasn't some master manipulator purposefully pushing his buttons immediately afterwards so he was moreso able to, for lack of a better term, "heal."

King makes it pretty clear he thinks this is the worst thing that has ever happened to Bruce and that nothing compares to it.
What other terrible stuff has happened?
Oh, a masterplan to destroy Batman? Even mentally, that is pretty standard Batman/Comic stuff. Bane's plan and the revelation of that plan in 72 being lame and ridiculous as hell didn't help.
After Damian's death he still had to fight the Heretic and Talia, then Ra's stole the corpse, so no. Bruce didn't have much time to "heal". But you know what? He was still acting like Batman, still fighting crime and even when they had a big fight Bruce still obviously cared for the rest of his family. I don't get the same feeling from King's version of Bruce.

What else happened? Dick got shot. Happened several times and we know Batman should know several ways to get his memory back, he just conveniently forgot about them.
The Knightmares? Don't make me laugh. I had nightmares more scarier and thought provoking than that.

[Hulkout42]

So, some people seemed to liked the dialogue here ? I'm astonished, because I found it utterly atrocious. I don't know what those things are, but they are certainly not human beings. And the pretty art did nothing to ease the issue on me. It was utteerly atrocious, and if it's what will be the Bat/Cat title, I'll be even glader to skip it than I'm already is.

Still praying for everything that King did to be gently pushed to the side soon, but I've the feeling the guy as basically killed Batman. No sane writer would want to take over after him, too much **** and disgusting decisions to deal with, to much of a mess to untangle. At this point, DC may as well stop publishing a Batman book for a time, just to let the toxicity of King's run dissipate a little, IMHO.

Interesting, so how many issues of King's run have you gotten through and why is it only now that you are reaching your potential breaking point when your words seem to indicate that you have loathed the run long before this issue came? I mean how much anger does one need to have until you reach that point where you give up all together and wait for the writer to be changed for another who could potentially do either better or worse than the current one?

[Hulkout42]

King makes it pretty clear he thinks this is the worst thing that has ever happened to Bruce and that nothing compares to it.
What other terrible stuff has happened?
Oh, a masterplan to destroy Batman? Even mentally, that is pretty standard Batman/Comic stuff.Bane's plan and the revelation of that plan in 72 being lame and ridiculous as hell didn't help.
After Damian's death he still had to fight the Heretic and Talia, then Ra's stole the corpse, so no. Bruce didn't have much time to "heal". But you know what? He was still acting like Batman, still fighting crime and even when they had a big fight Bruce still obviously cared for the rest of his family. I don't get the same feeling from King's version of Bruce.

What else happened? Dick got shot. Happened several times and we know Batman should know several ways to get his memory back, he just conveniently forgot about them.
The Knightmares? Don't make me laugh. I had nightmares more scarier and thought provoking than that.

Wouldn't it be safe to say that each writer who takes up the job of controlling the life of the caped crusader has to each make sure there is a terrible life-altering event occur to him? This just seems to be another in a long list of terrible things that happened to the Bat. Is it in the top five? I don't know but it seems pretty bad so far.

[Korath]

Interesting, so how many issues of King's run have you gotten through and why is it only now that you are reaching your potential breaking point when your words seem to indicate that you have loathed the run long before this issue came? I mean how much anger does one need to have until you reach that point where you give up all together and wait for the writer to be changed for another who could potentially do either better or worse than the current one?

I don't think it's possible to be worse suited than King turned out to be for Batman. Honestly.

I've read all his run, never re-read it, because it was never that good in my book, but until the end of issue 50, I overlooked the weaknesses -even if I did saw them- because the overall story was really interesting, at least. Then it all fell apart and I couldn't not see it. And I just want to see how his run will end, just to see how much of a disaster it will be and who will take over after him. My best guess so far is Scott Lodbell or Dan Jurgens, because they are the go to for DC in situations like this, I think. But honestly, I'll feel really sad for them -or whoever- take the reins of the main Batman book.

But the more time goes, the more I'm warming to the idea of another man having the cowl of Batman. Bruce as depicted by King is utterly unworthy of it. He's not a good man at heart, but a despicable piece of ****, who thrive only in a very toxic relationship with another terrible eprson, Selina Kyle.

[Ansa]

Wouldn't it be safe to say that each writer who takes up the job of controlling the life of the caped crusader has to each make sure there is a terrible life-altering event occur to him? This just seems to be another in a long list of terrible things that happened to the Bat. Is it in the top five? I don't know but it seems pretty bad so far.

Terrible things happening to Bruce is the most basic part of every run. Which is exactly why this "the first time Batman has lost" premise is dumb.
Most writers are a lot less pretentious when it comes to making Bruce suffer. King acts like a fanboy who believes he's writing the best and most original run ever, when in reality all of it has been done before and much better.

[Starrius]

I am not going to comment much.
I agree with a lot of the negative comments and a lot of the positive comments.

Selina sure looks beautiful! I don't know what it is about these artists that make look Selina very beautiful and sexy. She has gorgeous green eyes.

my main gripe is too much addressing each other Bat, Cat
I want to them addressing each other Bruce, Selina regularly
I am a BatCat fan, but I do cringe at a lot of the dialogue.
Even though I dislike how King writes them, it won't make me stop wanting Bruce and Selina to be together.
They will always be my favorite Bruce pairing.
They are my 3rd favorite couple after Peter/Mary Jane, Dick/Kory, and just before Scott/Jean.

I hope Bruce and Selina stay together and that another writer does a much better job writing them as a couple.
I prefer Selina to reform and be a crimefighter.
It's not like she hasn't done it before.
She did it in the 1980s.

[dietrich]

It is evident from many of your posts that you ascribe too much power and influence to vocal minorities online such as shippers and specific fan sects.

I absolutely guarantee that the YA women “shipping” Batman and Catwoman on Twitter and Tumblr represent a very tiny portion of the book’s 80-100K copies sold. That’s not who the Batman title is made for.

Are you going to pretend that you missed the part where I said because Batman? cherry pick my posts mate or try to twist them.

[dietrich]

Batman is an incredibly stable brand. King’s sales have sloped off slightly, perhaps in part due to pacing and perhaps in part due to semimonthly shipping, but you cannot expect that beyond this dip there has been a radical shift in the demographic of Batman readers.

You can try to equivocate are assumptions, but they aren’t made equal. You can spew baseless speculation and say it’s equally valid to a more reasonable answer, but that doesn’t make them equally valid. Just like your wild and basis speculation about the details surrounding King’s firing that was also proven wrong.

You are the only one here spewing baseless accusation here. I started this convo with the fact that it's normal for batman to sell I then went on to ascribe the success to shippers or just because batman meaning that batman always sells because he is popular. You choose to ignore everything and latch on the it must be shippers bit.

And where is your evidence that the claims that King was fired from Batman proven wrong? You are just assuming as well. The fact that he's writing a script does mean anything.

I will speculate that it seems odd that he leaves batman to get more free time yet he goes on to another monthly and then takes on an other Title in Strange. That's not what people trying to reduce their work load do. It could very well be that that is 100% what's happening but since we only have the side of the person who was punted off Batman we can't tell if it's spin or not. So no one has been proven wrong. We are all assuming.

[Mr. White]

Likes:
Mann's art... damn.
Batman in the sun/daylight.
Potential that Batman can develop as a character.

Dislikes:
"Bat", "Cat" and honestly, majority of the dialogue. I know King wants to keep the mystery(?) of what exactly is going on but true couples don't speak in "code" to each other. Least as far as I know.
Pacing. Yes I guess things can be happening simultaneously but this couples retreat while they should be strategizing seems off.
It's actually a nice story (if you take out all the dialogue) but is this when it should be told?

[marvelprince]

I actually like the Bat and Cat thing. It’s cute, it’s rhymes. Why not? Really liked the issue too. Bruce is always ready to go and head back into the fray but Selina knows he’ll get hurt again if he doesn't get his mind right first. Very touching. King better not be toying with me and actually keep them together when this is all done. I want full wedding and everything.

[KangMiRae]

I actually like the Bat and Cat thing. It’s cute, it’s rhymes. Why not? Really liked the issue too. Bruce is always ready to go and head back into the fray but Selina knows he’ll get hurt again if he doesn't get his mind right first. Very touching. King better not be toying with me and actually keep them together when this is all done. I want full wedding and everything.

I pray to God that after this book and the BatCat book that the entire relationship and the rest of the DCU is nuked to hell from another crisis.

[Blue22]

I actually like the Bat and Cat thing. It’s cute, it’s rhymes. Why not?

I actually gotta agree with this. Of all the things in this run that bother me, the pet names aren't one of them. For the most part, I thought their relationship was handled relatively well (in the first half of this run, anyway). I used to be on the fence about BatCat and whether it could really work, given who both characters are. But if there's one thing King's done successfully, it's making me want to see these two end up together.

[Frontier]

I actually gotta agree with this. Of all the things in this run that bother me, the pet names aren't one of them. For the most part, I thought their relationship was handled relatively well (in the first half of this run, anyway). I used to be on the fence about BatCat and whether it could really work, given who both characters are. But if there's one thing King's done successfully, it's making me want to see these two end up together.

I feel like the pet names wouldn't bother me if they weren't overused as much as they are and Batman didn't do it as much as Selina did.

Like, it's weird to me that Bruce hardly ever says Selina's actual name anymore.

[marvelprince]

I actually gotta agree with this. Of all the things in this run that bother me, the pet names aren't one of them. For the most part, I thought their relationship was handled relatively well (in the first half of this run, anyway). I used to be on the fence about BatCat and whether it could really work, given who both characters are. But if there's one thing King's done successfully, it's making me want to see these two end up together.

For me, I went from thinking Batman and Catwoman are ridiculous and writers need to stop and let that die to being absolutely devastated when 50 came and went and they didn’t get hitched. So I definitely feel you.