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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    I pray to God that after this book and the BatCat book that the entire relationship and the rest of the DCU is nuked to hell from another crisis.
    The "Selina is the only one who truly matters to Bruce's happiness, fuck everyone else" approach of King to their romance killed it for me. I can't describe how much I hate love stories that do that.
    Last edited by Ansa; 09-12-2019 at 12:54 PM.

  2. #137
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    The "Selina is the only one who truly matters to Bruce's happiness, fuck everyone else approach, fuck everyone else" approach of King to their romance killed it for me. I can't descripe how much I hate love stories that do that.
    That is such a bad approach that I don't see it being retained. This is as bad a s Bruce pissing himself. If I didn't know better i would say that King isn't a fan of the relationship and is trying to turn fans against the relationship. Bruce as a loving parent is one of the most endearing things about batman. The young orphan who lost his family and then built one himself by taking in and caring for others who had lost their families.

    That Bruce would be this bad a parent. That his priorities would be this F**ked up is F**ked up .
    Last edited by Fergus; 09-12-2019 at 12:56 PM.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    The "Selina is the only one who truly matters to Bruce's happiness, fuck everyone else" approach of King to their romance killed it for me. I can't describe how much I hate love stories that do that.

    Dick shot? "Life continues leave him Ric". Damian left? "Oh well he'll come back" Relationship with Jason on its all low? "Meh" Tim trying to help? "Knock him out"

    Selina left? "OMGIEFSDFOSDF[DSFJSDJ I CANT BREATHE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING"

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    That is such a bad approach that I don't see it being retained. SNIP
    I don't want to come off as overly antagonistic here, but what in the world makes you think anything from this run will necessarily be retained? Everything Morrison wrote un-did what came before it (grim and gritty loner rage-monster Batman) - it was literally ripped out of him by desert tribesmen. Snyder ripped up the batfamily Morrison spent so much time building up in Death of the Family. Tynion's run was a spiritual follow-up to Batman and Robin Eternal and didn't connect to Snyder or King's runs. King's run references almost nothing in particular from those other three runs (well, maybe Riddler's look from Zero Year maintains, but that's about it). Neither Tynion nor King followed up with any substance the development of Lark or Signal. Tomasi's run isn't touching on anything that's come before or is going on now. At this point, your prior should be that the next Batman writer will do whatever s/he wants and not feel beholden to follow up on plot points set up by the previous creative team.
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  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    This book is actively turning me from indifferent about BatCat to straight up despising it. I don't know how anyone can care about these two.
    Ha, funny, I'm the exact opposite. This is the first time I've found the couple even remotely compelling since pre-Crisis. Whenever anyone brought up the pairing during the '90s or 2000s it always seemed so forced to me.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkcrusade25 View Post
    Dick shot? "Life continues leave him Ric". Damian left? "Oh well he'll come back" Relationship with Jason on its all low? "Meh" Tim trying to help? "Knock him out"

    Selina left? "OMGIEFSDFOSDF[DSFJSDJ I CANT BREATHE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING"
    Exactly. I want to throw King's version of Bruce off a roof.

  7. #142
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    I liked the issue
    However I think the biggest problem that it has is that it comes as a climax to a period that doesnt deserve this climax
    to put it simply, they have to separate in order to be brought back together, i like that they are they are being brought back together but I wish they hadnt separated to begin with.

    The best thing about it is that it just straight up says that the whole Batman cant be happy and be batman is complete BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    I don't want to come off as overly antagonistic here, but what in the world makes you think anything from this run will necessarily be retained? Everything Morrison wrote un-did what came before it (grim and gritty loner rage-monster Batman) - it was literally ripped out of him by desert tribesmen. Snyder ripped up the batfamily Morrison spent so much time building up in Death of the Family. Tynion's run was a spiritual follow-up to Batman and Robin Eternal and didn't connect to Snyder or King's runs. King's run references almost nothing in particular from those other three runs (well, maybe Riddler's look from Zero Year maintains, but that's about it). Neither Tynion nor King followed up with any substance the development of Lark or Signal. Tomasi's run isn't touching on anything that's come before or is going on now. At this point, your prior should be that the next Batman writer will do whatever s/he wants and not feel beholden to follow up on plot points set up by the previous creative team.
    I disagree with this entirely
    even though its true that some themes dont follow up run after run, elements of them do remain.

    if we have to pick the most relevant element of Morrison's run that still echo in continuity right now that would be Damian.
    besides that i will like to think that the concept of exploring the rest of the Wayne Family through the ages, the creation of Miagani tribe, the black casebook among others
    even though some of these havent been awknoledge that much resently they do still remain in continuity

    then afterwards Snyder did continue to explore other Wayne members with Court of Owls and Kane family members on Year Zero which at the same time came from exploring old continuity stories
    I still remember people were saying that Snyder out-Morrison Morrison with Thomas Wayne Jr
    and yes even though he hasnt appeared very much recently he still exist

    I could also include a lot of stuff from B&R Eternal and Tomasi but the point im getting at is that you are focussing a lot on the thigs that arent there but not in the things that are still around.

    about what will be retained from King's run
    Obviously Bat&Cat
    no matter if you like it or not this is the most significant change to their relationship since Hush

    besides that maybe we will see Gotham Girl return someway or another
    and we will have to wait and see what will happen with Flashpoint Batman, my guess is that Gotham girl will kill him as it was foreshadow in the end of I am Gotham but I doubt that this will be forgotten easily


    I also would like to mention one thing
    I dont have any evidence of this but I strongly feel that Signal not being a thing in King's run has to be editorially mandated
    If you go back to Batman Rebirth#1 which was cowritten by both Snyder and King it included a very big change by having Bruce approaching Duke, then Duke was still there during I am Gotham and had a pretty big piece
    and then nothing.

    Its just weird.

  8. #143
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    I agree that certain elements of certain runs do tend to stick around.

    If I had to guess for this one, I really do believe the change to Batman/Catwoman's relationship is going to be the thing that sticks from King's run. In some form anyway. It's what had the biggest impact in terms of pop culture, media attention, etc. And it's not even over, with the Bat/Cat series coming.

  9. #144
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    It's not the nothing carries on from run to run - it's that only the parts the creator wants to play with move on. Snyder mostly ignored Damian, King uses him sparingly, but to good effect. Tomasi likes the character and uses him a decent amount. It's clearly a choice each is making. My basic point is that it's not necessarily true that any specific element of King's run/theory of Batman will carry over, and whatever does carry over is due to the next creator having an affinity for that element.

    ETA: Selina and Bruce being together might be a new status quo after King leaves, but that doesn't necessarily mean the cutesy Bat/Cat nicknames will stick around, or the "has to be happy" theme will continue. The next team will put their own spin on it that may or may not shift it from the things people complain about in this thread and others to something they enjoy.

    I'll quibble a little bit about Snyder's use of Thomas Wayne and the Miagani being good examples to your point. Morrison and Snyder were both riffing on the old story of a Thomas Wayne being in Willowwood Hospital in different ways. Snyder's re-casting of Barbatos and the Miagani tribe for Metal is fundamentally incompatible with Morrison's use of them in RoBW. The rest of it, sure. Some things move along, others get lost in the shuffle for a variety of reasons (I'd bet money that Penguin having had an actual penguin for a girlfriend will not be addressed again).

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    I also would like to mention one thing
    I dont have any evidence of this but I strongly feel that Signal not being a thing in King's run has to be editorially mandated
    If you go back to Batman Rebirth#1 which was cowritten by both Snyder and King it included a very big change by having Bruce approaching Duke, then Duke was still there during I am Gotham and had a pretty big piece
    and then nothing.

    Its just weird.
    The Duke thing is weird - the back ups in ASB just kind of stopped, the Signal mini seems to have done nothing to move the character on, and now he's in Batman and the Outsiders? It seemed like his original intent in the story related to Claire/Gotham Girl, but he's not yet been part of City of Bane (where she features somewhat prominently).
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  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    That is such a bad approach that I don't see it being retained. This is as bad a s Bruce pissing himself. If I didn't know better i would say that King isn't a fan of the relationship and is trying to turn fans against the relationship. Bruce as a loving parent is one of the most endearing things about batman. The young orphan who lost his family and then built one himself by taking in and caring for others who had lost their families.

    That Bruce would be this bad a parent. That his priorities would be this F**ked up is F**ked up .
    How anyone can look at this guy and think: " You know what he deserves? A happy ever after and little Helena Wayne!" is beyond me. I wouldn't trust him to take care of a goldfish, let alone a baby.

  11. #146
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    The "Selina is the only one who truly matters to Bruce's happiness, fuck everyone else" approach of King to their romance killed it for me. I can't describe how much I hate love stories that do that.
    It's just terrible romance in my opinion. I don't think King knows how to tell a compelling love story, at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    That is such a bad approach that I don't see it being retained. This is as bad a s Bruce pissing himself. If I didn't know better i would say that King isn't a fan of the relationship and is trying to turn fans against the relationship. Bruce as a loving parent is one of the most endearing things about batman. The young orphan who lost his family and then built one himself by taking in and caring for others who had lost their families.

    That Bruce would be this bad a parent. That his priorities would be this F**ked up is F**ked up .
    A lot of this won't retain, which is why I'm banking on a reset sooner than later.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    I agree that certain elements of certain runs do tend to stick around.

    If I had to guess for this one, I really do believe the change to Batman/Catwoman's relationship is going to be the thing that sticks from King's run. In some form anyway. It's what had the biggest impact in terms of pop culture, media attention, etc. And it's not even over, with the Bat/Cat series coming.
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you don't think King's BatCat writing has anything to do with their rep in pop culture, do you? Because people have known about Batman and Catwoman for years.
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  12. #147
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    I also would like to mention one thing
    I dont have any evidence of this but I strongly feel that Signal not being a thing in King's run has to be editorially mandated
    If you go back to Batman Rebirth#1 which was cowritten by both Snyder and King it included a very big change by having Bruce approaching Duke, then Duke was still there during I am Gotham and had a pretty big piece
    and then nothing.

    Its just weird.
    I feel like the reason was because Batman: Rebirth #1 was supposed to act as a prelude to both of their books, King's Batman and Snyder's All-Star Batman, the latter in which Duke played an extremely major role in. If anything, I think its more likely Duke being in King's run was moreso editorially mandated, as in he doesn't have a real major part to play, but that he's just simply another part of the Batfamily that he can use if he needs another one to fit that role.

    I also don't think his run really gets going until I Am Suicide, as I Am Gotham execution wise just feels like a first arc, mostly separated and not sure exactly how much will come into play later or not. (There's also supposedly word-of-god that Geoff Johns ghost wrote the first arc of every one of the Rebirth books, so that might also play into things if true, but I'd still mostly label that as a rumour)
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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    That is such a bad approach that I don't see it being retained. This is as bad a s Bruce pissing himself. If I didn't know better i would say that King isn't a fan of the relationship and is trying to turn fans against the relationship. Bruce as a loving parent is one of the most endearing things about batman. The young orphan who lost his family and then built one himself by taking in and caring for others who had lost their families.

    That Bruce would be this bad a parent. That his priorities would be this F**ked up is F**ked up .

    I think you are exactly correct

    It is terribly out of character and I think the reasons are as you say

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Bruce as a loving parent is one of the most endearing things about batman. The young orphan who lost his family and then built one himself by taking in and caring for others who had lost their families.

    That Bruce would be this bad a parent. That his priorities would be this F**ked up is F**ked up .
    Another thing that annoys me, both about King and some fans, is the idea that Bruce would finally have a family again if he marries Selina. He already has a family. He had one for several decades now. They are literally called bat-family. You don't need a spouse to have a family.

  15. #150

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    All I know is I am rooting for Bane because I cannot stand the way King writes Bruce.

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