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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That story beat wouldn't have even happened if Peter was a happily married man living with his wife. Some of the subplots involving the supporting cast wouldn't have played out the same way, and many wouldn't have occurred at all.
    Why does the death of Marla Jameson depend on Peter being single specifically?

    Why does Norah Winters who Peter never dated at all, needs a single Peter to be inserted into the stories? Carlie Cooper obviously wouldn't exist...but I doubt that there are many who would miss her.

    Horizon Labs...that's a redo of Peter joining Garid and other tech firms in the 90s both of which happened when he was married, so there's no reason Peter working at Horizon is something that only works with an unmarried Peter.

    I don't see how it could have worked if Peter was married and living with his wife. They'd have to break up first.
    Otto could decommission Mary Jane, either kidnapping her or putting her in some coma which she eventually overcomes just in time. It's just a subplot needed to pad out the vicarious fantasy of seeing Otto-in-Peter. It's not that different from Aunt May being taken out of commission by Mark Millar in Marvel Knights Spider-Man.

    Even then, I can't see the romance with Anna Maria playing out the same way.
    Considering that the "romance" was coercive, creepy, and not entirely in the realm of consent...it's probably a good thing.

    Would Carlie Cooper even exist?
    Probably not. And she doesn't play a too-large role in Superior anyway. She gets turned into a goblin and walks out of the Spider-Man titles until Spencer brought her back.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 09-08-2019 at 06:32 PM.

  2. #17
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    He wouldn't do anything to Mary Jane, the premise of Superior is that Peter gave him a conscience.
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  3. #18
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    He wouldn't do anything to Mary Jane, the premise of Superior is that Peter gave him a conscience.
    Well...some of one.

  4. #19
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well...some of one.
    Every day I pray for one of Blackout's teeth.
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    He wouldn't do anything to Mary Jane, the premise of Superior is that Peter gave him a conscience.
    He only got that "conscience" because Peter forced his consciousness on to him in "Dying Wish". Not out of actual free will on Otto's part.

    The main problem Slott had to make that story work and it continues to diminish any point that story has is that neither MJ nor Aunt May can tell it's Otto even if Otto's not acting well as Peter. So he had to write them out of character or otherwise shuttle MJ out of the story until the ending because Slott's main aim was to pad out of that story for as long as he could not to you know, follow the characters logically and so on.

    To pad out that story with a married Peter would be easy, so before the story, Slott needs to have MJ have some kind of accident, either falling on stairs or something mundane and that puts her in a coma, and Peter is desperate to make it work and in his desperation he uses Otto's brain-scanner and that leads to his body being hacked, Peter forces his memories on to Otto and Ock decides he'll prove he's Peter's superior by healing MJ but that takes time and he can't do it and Otto considers pulling the plug on her and so on. That bit where Peter tries to prevent Otto from saving a girl's life while being a spirit could work better if Otto was doing that but his aim was to then go home and pull the plug and Spirit Peter was trying to save his wife but potentially risking another innocent in the process. Eventually mid-way into the story MJ regains consciousness and maybe at the same time, the buried version of Peter in Otto wakes up too and eventually MJ wakes up and rallies everyone just as she does in the main story.

    So you can have more or less the same high stakes context with a married Spider-Man just moving some stuff here and there.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 09-08-2019 at 06:44 PM.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That story beat wouldn't have even happened if Peter was a happily married man living with his wife. Some of the subplots involving the supporting cast wouldn't have played out the same way, and many wouldn't have occurred at all.



    I don't see how it could have worked if Peter was married and living with his wife. They'd have to break up first. Even then, I can't see the romance with Anna Maria playing out the same way. Carlie Cooper's involvement wouldn't be the same either. Would Carlie Cooper even exist?
    Otto takes over Peter. Mary Jane immediately realizes it but can't prove it. Rewrite over, story continues. that's not difficult.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Well we did a re-imagining of what the comics would have been like had Gwen lived, so?



    Yeah, probably not. So I guess that Spider-Man's time in CIVIL WAR will be different. He will either be neutral, back Cap, or he won't publicly disclose his identity. But the Civil War and its aftermath will affect him. My guess is that Spider-Man will be more enmeshed with the Avengers, so for instance stuff like Dark Reign and Osborn in Thunderbolts will be a bigger deal for him than it was originally, where Osborn's elevation as Marvel-wide villain didn't have a lot of impact on Spider-Man.

    We also won't have Back in Black and perhaps To Have and To Hold. So those are huge losses but who knows, maybe Fraction will follow JMS and do a run after him. One can hope.



    Ultimate Spider-Man is in his own continuity separate from 616. What happened in 616 does not influence happenings in Ultimate Marvel, not until Spider-Men at any rate.

    Miles Morales' debut was inspired by Donald Glover's unsuccessful campaign to play Peter in the Marc Webb movies which stirred up a public debate about going colorblind casting, and it was inspired by Obama's election. Neither of those two events are gonna be affected by OMD. They will happen regardless.

    So we will most likely have Miles with and without OMD, and that means Death of Spider-Man happens in USM, that means Spider-Men happens.



    Spider-Verse was inspired by the game Shattered Dimensions (2010) on which Slott was a writer and some ideas he rejected ended up being repurposed for Spider-Verse. A video-game has a long lead-time and it definitely wasn't inspired by happenings in the comic book.

    In general, with and without OMD, Miles Morales will be there. That's the biggest new character in Spider-Man since Venom and Carnage. So on an essential level, the absence of OMD won't really change things. Spider-Verse will also likely happen.

    As for 616 Continuity, Marc Guggenheim, Zeb Wells, Dan Slott and others all said that with and without the marriage they would have written Spider-Man. Slott himself said that Wacker would have been hired by Marvel for his work on 52 with and without that retcon in mind.

    So you will most likely still have a transition from JMS to the Brain Trust. You won't have a Brevoort manifesto (thank goodness since that asininely written document isn't worth the paper its printed on). Dan Slott writing Spider-Man with the marriage would be interesting to consider.
    Good point that there would be no Back in Black or "To Have and to Hold."

    While Ultimate Spider-Man is in its continuity, the creative decisions are still shaped by events in the regular Marvel Universe. If the regular Spider-Man has a different status quo, that can affect the directions Bendis will take Ultimate Spider-Man, as well as the creative inspirations.

    The decision to kill off Ultimate Spider-Man came prior to the decision to create Miles Morales, so the former is necessary to the latter.

    Fair point on Spider-Verse, although I still think there would be less focus on alternate dimensions without the Spider-Men crossover.

    Wacker got hired because they needed someone who could manage a weekly title, and he was the one guy with the expertise given his work on 52. They might not have gone after him as aggressively if they stuck with multiple titles.

    One interesting question is whether the creative teams would be the same. With the thrice-monthly Amazing Spider-Man, Marvel went with writers who weren't really major names at the time, for a variety of reasons (budget, potential concerns that a star writer's work would overshadow issues by the other writers.) There might be a different balance with multiple monthlies.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    Not that I've read every storyline, but with minor tweaking, many work with a married Peter Parker. (Perhaps not Chameleon impersonating Peter and sleeping with the roommate.) I think the storylines would have been about the same. Superior would have needed a slightly different slant, but I think it would have worked.
    The stories might work, but the creative genesis could be different.

    Dan Slott came up with the idea for Superior Spider-Man while revising a scene in Amazing Spider-Man #600. If someone else is writing a big storyline with Doctor Octopus, the creative germ for that idea won't exist.

    On the other hand, it's possible that it would still happen. It would still make sense for Marvel to go with new villains for the first year of the post-JMS status quo, and to do a Gauntlet style return for the big villains, which could easily result in Slott writing a Doc Ock story and getting an idea for where it could go next. From there, it's a matter of moving characters around to get a believable status quo where Mary Jane wouldn't immediately recognize that her husband has been replaced by a supervillain (IE- giving her an acting opportunity that takes her to a film set in Iceland for a few months.)

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The decision to kill off Ultimate Spider-Man came prior to the decision to create Miles Morales, so the former is necessary to the latter.
    Nope. Bendis decided to kill Peter when he realized he could replace him with a new Spider-Man, Miles, who would be his true 21st Century legacy. Death of Spider-Man was written in the aim of it being followed by Miles. This is pretty obvious when you factor how quickly Miles' debut followed Ult. Peter's death. It happened in Ultimate Fallout, a miniseries that was a requiem for Peter's death. And in any case, there's no evidence about Ultimate Spider-Man being inspired by happenings in 616. Stuff like Ultimatum which shook up the Ultimate Marvel status-quo (and which was originally supposed to have Ultimate Peter's death before Bendis decided he did have a few more stories to tell with him) had a bigger impact and that definitely wasn't inspired by OMD.

    So Miles is definitely on the cards with and without OMD.

  9. #24
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    First, I believe Doctor Stephen Strange or Reed Richards or Tony Stark's medical funding towards an advanced enough level of care should have been more than adequate to heal Aunt May up, rather than "I'm sorry, I can only heal mystical wounds" or "Nothing I can do, except make her as comfortable as possible" bull manure, which I'd assume they made that up specifically for that story, leading up to Cup O' Joe Quesada's believed only doctor for the situation: Mephisto.

    Then, as evidenced by an even worse story a couple years later, the heroes then erase public knowledge of Spider-Man, so that they can get off Peter's tail, as everyone was after him, end-Civil War.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That story beat wouldn't have even happened if Peter was a happily married man living with his wife. Some of the subplots involving the supporting cast wouldn't have played out the same way, and many wouldn't have occurred at all.



    I don't see how it could have worked if Peter was married and living with his wife. They'd have to break up first. Even then, I can't see the romance with Anna Maria playing out the same way. Carlie Cooper's involvement wouldn't be the same either. Would Carlie Cooper even exist?
    THIS is THE classic Peter Parker / Spider-Man Supporting Cast: Aunt May Parker, Uncle Benjamin Parker, Mary Jane Watson, Aunt Anna Watson, J. Jonah Jameson, John Jameson, Harry Osborn, Elizabeth "Liz" Allan-Osborn, Joseph "Robbie" Robertson, Randy Robertson, Betty Brant, Eugene "Flash" Thompson, Gwendolyn Stacy, Captain George Stacy, Gloria Grant, and sometimes Marla Madison-Jameson, Norman "Normie" Osborn, Martha Robertson, Benjamin Urich, Curt Connors, Martha Connors, and Billy Connors.
    Last edited by ngroove; 09-08-2019 at 08:49 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Why does the death of Marla Jameson depend on Peter being single specifically?
    I didn't mention Marla. Why do you spend your time this way?

  12. #27
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    Here's what I would believe may happen without One More Day:

    A) Spider-Man may / may not be still an Avenger

    B) Harry Osborn'll probably still be dead, but it'll be OK, as Mary Jane would have still been Mary Jane Watson-Parker

    C) A whole DIFFERENT set of stories, which I'd be fine with it - I do not like Carlie Cooper, or Mister Negative, or Menace, or Screwball. Marla Madison may still be alive, Kraven the Hunter may still be dead. Doctor Octopus may still be in his classic, bowl-cutted dapper form. Norman Osborn may still be just as much as THE enemy of the Avengers as he is Spider-Man's. There may or may not be Miles Morales, Spider-Gwen or Spider-Verse, but that will be more than OK by me - as 616 Peter Parker Spider-Man is the only Spider-Person I read. J Michael Straczynksi may still be allowed to do Amazing Spider-Man a little while longer, as I'd prefer him over Slott, Peter David's Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man would be awesome had it continued too.
    Last edited by ngroove; 09-08-2019 at 09:50 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    Here's what I would believe may happen without One More Day:

    A) Spider-Man may / may not be still an Avenger

    B) Harry Osborn'll probably still be dead, but it'll be OK, as Mary Jane would have still been Mary Jane Watson-Parker

    C) A whole DIFFERENT set of stories, which I'd be fine with it - I do not like Carlie Cooper, or Mister Negative, or Menace, or Screwball. Marla Madison may still be alive, Kraven the Hunter may still be dead. Doctor Octopus may still be in his classic, bowl-cutted dapper form. Norman Osborn may still be just as much as THE enemy of the Avengers as he is Spider-Man's. There may or may not be Miles Morales, Spider-Gwen or Spider-Verse, but that will be more than OK by me - as 616 Peter Parker Spider-Man is the only Spider-Person I read. J Michael Straczynksi may still be allowed to do Amazing Spider-Man a little while longer, as I'd prefer him over Slott, Peter David's Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man would be awesome had it continued too.
    Isn’t this a list of reasons justifying why OMD should’ve happened? Because it shows how stagnant Spider-Man would come otherwise?

    It seems as though no one has any ideas for new characters.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Isn’t this a list of reasons justifying why OMD should’ve happened? Because it shows how stagnant Spider-Man would come otherwise?

    It seems as though no one has any ideas for new characters.
    I was a reader of new adventures of Spider-Man, 1995 - most of 2007.

    Afterwards, Spider-Man SUCKED, until latest volume, last year.

    Some things were just never broken in the first place.
    Last edited by ngroove; 09-09-2019 at 07:33 AM.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Isn’t this a list of reasons justifying why OMD should’ve happened? Because it shows how stagnant Spider-Man would come otherwise?

    It seems as though no one has any ideas for new characters.
    Post-OMD Spider-man and most of Slott's run is far more stagnant than what came before.

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