HoX: Should the crew of the Orchis Forge be considered 'Innocent Civilians'?

[Big Joe]

There are some small caveats to the situation but pretty much every military that has the support is working like that. How you going to find out if they are hostage held inside? British troops can see through buildings? Come on now there is no way to tell who inside of these houses/buildings. You are aren't risking your men to go inside to find out. Sometimes you mark building/area for the next set of people to look for it or call in for an airstrike. The airstrike is preferable you have access to call in them. People do understand that I am talking about a general warzone in a city type area? right. Most people have clear out but you can never fully be sure of what is in a building. Lose a couple of men clearing a building your attitude on process changes quite a bit.

But apparently we need examples of different military hitting stuff similar to what I am talking about

Hellfire on building
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Vq6XU7T0s

The Brits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADa8...has_verified=1

Hey look a house
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk__2n6S9MA

another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSOMEIe1Bg

Isreali targeting building complex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQDwOyWj8O0



Building , Houses, Huts, Caves,etc

Anyways like said give the choice being losing X-men and destroying the base. Destroying the base would be the option



Destroying Hydra, Aim, and Hammer base near the Sun? Nah no government is saying anything about it that or are the worlds government going to War for terrorist now?

Never been in the military, have you?

[Killerbee911]

Never been in the military, have you?

4 years in the Marines, 6 years in Army..Do we need to know my MoS and how many times I deployed? The internet can be a silly place.

[Big Joe]

And you suggest that the marines or the army would call in air strikes right away on possible civilian targets? No checks or balances, as soon as shots are fired they'd destroy buildings? Have you heard of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland, it happened in 1972 and is still being challenged legally now?

[Killerbee911]

And you suggest that the marines or the army would call in air strikes right away on possible civilian targets? No checks or balances, as soon as shots are fired they'd destroy buildings? Have you heard of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland where that sort of thing is still being challenged now?

Where did you see no checks and balances? I said

Simple scenario Military Soldiers are clearing houses looking for terrorist

They are about to enter the house but from inside of the house a terrorist opens fire

They are small things(checks and balances) that happen between the airstrike, The house/building can't be clear without causalities. Mark it and moving on as means that someone might be killed by this person or persons. Yes you call in an airstrike/artillery on it if it is available.

Anyways it is relevant to the topic because most people yeah military is going storm to seal team 6 in the building like the X-men did in the story. The safer method for the people involved is to blow up the thing. That was the point not storm the complex. do I have to explain that this is a warzone, most of the people have cleared out and they very few civilians around,The building/house has one entrance in and high widows and you can't clear it because you will be sitting ducks,You have scouted around to make sure nobody else gets caught up in the strike, call it to your command for approval, etc. The bigger point was only a suicide mission because of the X-men approach and there was a better option for their safety. But because superheroes comics they pick the civilian friendly method.

[Big Joe]

most of the people have cleared out and they very few civilians around,The building/house has one entrance in and high widows and you can't clear it because you will be sitting ducks,You have scouted around to make sure nobody else gets caught up in the strike, call it to your command for approval, etc.

And that is exactly what you didn't say.

[Chris0013]

Please god...tell me you are not at all anyway related to the pentagon in your line of work.

I am not saying you go in there shwacking civvies left and right...but if your goal is the destruction of the facility you have to accept that the civilian contractors are going to get caught in the crossfire.

Get with the times man...Clerks covered this with the civilian construction workers on the Death Star.

[Triniking1234]

Please god...tell me you are not at all anyway related to the pentagon in your line of work.

LMAO. How'd you think things went down during WW2?

Bomb them b4 they bomb us.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

LMAO. How'd you think things went down during WW2?

Bomb them b4 they bomb us.

Wow...a war that ended 40-50 years before most of us (yes yes not all of us) were born

[Chris0013]

LMAO. How'd you think things went down during WW2?

Bomb them b4 they bomb us.

Wow...a war that ended 40-50 years before most of us (yes yes not all of us) were born

You should have a basic grasp of history. The Dresden bombing is still debated to this day. And we knew that the Japanese used a lot of wood to build with...and that our bombing was going to start massive fires. We still did it.

A valid military target is a valid military target and will get bombed....no matter how many civvies are there. And we are not going to call ahead and say "can you please clear the civilians out...we will be there 2 days from now at noon to blow it up....don't want anyone to get hurt thought."

[phoenixzero23]

I mean our heros are just trying to prevent a threat that will 100% destroy their species in the future.
These humans were creating weapons to kill some people based on their race, there might be scientist there and they maybe are afraid but that is no excuse to create weapons to kill other people.
So I think they are enemy combatants, and they started the whole thing they aren't innocent

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

You should have a basic grasp of history. The Dresden bombing is still debated to this day. And we knew that the Japanese used a lot of wood to build with...and that our bombing was going to start massive fires. We still did it.

A valid military target is a valid military target and will get bombed....no matter how many civvies are there. And we are not going to call ahead and say "can you please clear the civilians out...we will be there 2 days from now at noon to blow it up....don't want anyone to get hurt thought."

Lol...i understand history fine...including the 2 nukes the bombing of dresden and pretty much every major battle...none if it is the way we handled the 90s operation dessert storm (and i bet there are people in this board who were not alive to see THAT "WAR")
We do "call ahead" today. We do put more special forces on the ground...more "winning hearts and minds"

[Triniking1234]

You should have a basic grasp of history. The Dresden bombing is still debated to this day. And we knew that the Japanese used a lot of wood to build with...and that our bombing was going to start massive fires. We still did it.

A valid military target is a valid military target and will get bombed....no matter how many civvies are there. And we are not going to call ahead and say "can you please clear the civilians out...we will be there 2 days from now at noon to blow it up....don't want anyone to get hurt thought."

Dear bad guys,

We're gonna bomb yur arse.

Tell the staff to take some vacation leave.

Yours truly,
The Yankees.

[Sutekh]

Up until Genosha, I'd be all 'whatever' about people building Sentinels (or various other weapons) to feel safer about some overhyped 'mutant threat' (cause they were about as 'deadly' as that failure Arcade, who hadn't killed anyone yet, either, and, like most weapons, are less 'responsible' for killing anyone than the person in control of them).

But after Genosha, in which *the world* saw these robots out of control massacre an entire country, I'd (as a human) be leery of building more of them, because they may be intended by some to 'protect humanity,' but they are clearly not under any sort of airtight control.

I'm not sure I'd love the idea of a 'Mother Mold' AI controlling them, either. The military, for good reason, has preferred to keep out defense network as human-controlled as possible, and avoided automation, particularly in any sort of nuclear response, so that it always comes down to *people* making the choices, not machines, which can (and have done!) malfunction and give false positives. An AI coordinating your 'mutant threat response' sounds like a disaster in the making, even if you're not pro-mutant, and if I was a human afraid of 'being replaced,' I'd be far more scared of it being by Sentinels thinking for themselves, than by mutants, who are at least born mostly to human parents and grow up in human culture, and share our basic needs like food, shelter, etc.

In light of Genosha, any human working actively on a Sentinel program is already pro-genocide, and kind of nuts, so I'd be inclined to think of them as no better than Nazis. If Genosha were *not* part of the history, I'd be more likely to think of them as not even as bad as people who work for cigarette companies. Sure, they're products are probably going to kill people (and, pre-Genosha, even that wasn't a sure thing, since Sentinels, to that point, had mostly been an expensive purple boondoggle, cigarettes had killed way more people!), and they don't care so long as their checks cash, but it's not illegal or anything, just kind of skeevy.

[Knives]

The old story blame who invented the atom bomb or just those who decided to use it?

Not an easy answer but I sure wouldn't call someone who creates giant killers robots of innocent people .

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

In light of Genosha, any human working actively on a Sentinel program is already pro-genocide, and kind of nuts, so I'd be inclined to think of them as no better than Nazis. If Genosha were *not* part of the history, I'd be more likely to think of them as not even as bad as people who work for cigarette companies. Sure, they're products are probably going to kill people (and, pre-Genosha, even that wasn't a sure thing, since Sentinels, to that point, had mostly been an expensive purple boondoggle, cigarettes had killed way more people!), and they don't care so long as their checks cash, but it's not illegal or anything, just kind of skeevy.

They were building in safe guards...both hard and software...until the x men attacked