Have the FoX-Men movies negatively affected the X-Men as a brand?

[Anduinel]

Although the movies did have a fanbase, I do wonder how much of it was left by the end. As I said in the OP...


It feels all too true. I honestly don't think anyone I saw was pumped for Dark Phoenix, and it just felt like something that had to pass. I think the impending MCU reboot did a lot to kill whatever potential Dark Phoenix had in terms of success, regardless of quality.

I'd agree with that, but it's hard to blame the movies for extraordinary circumstances. Outside of that, though, I think there was less excitement for the main movies than there was for some of the upcoming spin-offs - more Deadpool films, New Mutants, X-Force, etc.

[TOTALITY]

Actually, I think the MCU X-Men movies are coming sooner than that even. Feige confirmed them and the Fantastic Four were coming in Phase 5 at the end of SDCC, which officially kicks off in 2022 with Black Panther 2.



I kinda need MCU X-Men to come ASAP. With them back in Marvel's good graces, it's making me excited for what's to come. I'm ready for the new golden era of X-Men to begin!

I don’t think Feige teasing “we didn’t even have time to talk about Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Fantastic Four, mutants...” is the same as saying “The X-Men are coming in phase 5”. You might infer that from being mentioned in the same train of thought as a movie coming in 2022, but I would still say that’s far from a confirmation of any timeline. Plus, they can only release so many movies a year, and I would still expect to see Captain Marvel 2 and Guardians 3 before X-Men, and then they’re going to be wanting to do sequels for other new characters like Eternals, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they do Fantastic Four before X-Men too. Not trying to discourage you though; I don’t know any better than anyone else here! Just trying to manage my own expectations as much as anything. I hope I’m even alive when another X-Men movie comes. I get the feeling they aren’t in a hurry to unleash the X-Men because they probably know that’s their big “now we get another 15 years” extension.

[H-E-D]

All I know is that the Fox movies have managed to convince people that both Professor X and Magneto are British.

Like, just imagine if the X-Men show up in the MCU with a lineup and costumes that evoke the animated series / Jim Lee era. Like what an obvious message that would instantly send to so many people.

God, I hope not. Those costumes are awful.

[Hybrid]

I don’t think Feige teasing “we didn’t even have time to talk about Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Fantastic Four, mutants...” is the same as saying “The X-Men are coming in phase 5”. You might infer that from being mentioned in the same train of thought as a movie coming in 2022, but I would still say that’s far from a confirmation of any timeline. Plus, they can only release so many movies a year, and I would still expect to see Captain Marvel 2 and Guardians 3 before X-Men, and then they’re going to be wanting to do sequels for other new characters like Eternals, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they do Fantastic Four before X-Men too. Not trying to discourage you though; I don’t know any better than anyone else here! Just trying to manage my own expectations as much as anything. I hope I’m even alive when another X-Men movie comes. I get the feeling they aren’t in a hurry to unleash the X-Men because they probably know that’s their big “now we get another 15 years” extension.

Occam's razor. When Feige mentions Fantastic Four and mutants in the same breath as Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and the Guardians of the Galaxy, after announcing Blade for Phase 5, all to hype up the crowd, I'm inclined to believe that's a tease for them in Phase 5. Besides, it's not just movies anymore. Remember, 2021 has seven MCU works alone thanks to Disney+.

I think they know the X-Men is going to be their big move. I mean, if anyone ever thinks the MCU is about to go stale, it's their nuclear weapon. Their ace. Their instant win play. They can't keep them out of the MCU, because they know they're going to be gigantic.

[Killerbee911]

In a way how Fox messed the X-men did minimal damage. It is not like Fox messed up Cyclops, Jean, Rogue, Nightcrawler,etc. They just didn't use them enough which is actually good for MCU. Here is a breakdown of Screentime in the 7 main movies


Xavier 2 hours 3 mins
Magneto 2 hours
Wolverine 1 hour 7 mins
Jean 1 hour 4 mins
Mystique 1 hour 3 mins
Beast 59 mins
Storm 42 mins
Cyclops 41 mins
Rogue 29 mins
Moira Mactaggert 24mins
Nightcrawler 22 mins
Iceman 19 mins
Quicksilver 17 mins
Havok 15 mins
Pyro 10 mins
Kitty Pryde 10 mins
Angel 8 mins
Banshee 8 mins
Emma 7 mins
Psylocke 6 mins
Colossus 4 mins
Bishop 2 mins
Jubilee 1 min

If you think about Xavier, Magneto, Mystique are more side characters so moving forward with just them in key spots is fine. Jean has long periods of being dead so you can avoid her that if you wanted. Which leaves Wolverine who was used alot but only has significant time in 1 of the last four X-men movies. He is those three movies all of 2 min and 45 seconds. Nobody needs huge character repair because nobody got used enough to be missed that badly. I don't think is going to be hard rewire people opinions on characters except for Wolverine,Professor X and Magneto who all got strong performance at Fox.

[TOTALITY]

God, I hope not. Those costumes are awful.

Haha, I knew that was going to be someone’s takeaway from what I wrote. You can stretch the word “evoke” as far as you need to here... I said that era because I feel like that’s the non-movie version the most people probably have memories of, and that would be the quickest shorthand for connecting the desired mental associations, but I’m just thinking anything that says “X-Men” in a way people recognize, to a degree the Fox movies never have. Like surely Cyclops could have some blue if not those awful yellow straps, or you could have Rogue in green with optional jacket, or Jubilee in a yellow trench coat. You don’t have to stick Wolverine in yellow, but imagine seeing him in any kind of (non black leather) costume for the first time. (A variation of the brown one would be cool, I think!)

No single character would have to be super faithful to any particular comic costume, just enough of their personality that when you see them all together it’s like “oh yeah... the X-Men!”

[Killerbee911]

No single character would have to be super faithful to any particular comic costume, just enough of their personality that when you see them all together it’s like “oh yeah... the X-Men!”

I remember when we thought these would be the next movie suits,They aren't all good but it was hey this the X-men we know from the books

[Hybrid]

I wonder, will they be willing to cover things the FoX-Men already did, under the pretense of "we'll do it better"? I'd love to see the Dark Phoenix Saga actually play out in the MCU, doing the story justice. I know with Spider-Man, they deliberately avoided trying to cover what the previous movies did, but that really worked against it because MCU Spidey relied way too much on the shared universe over his own mythos.

[Frobisher]

I think initially the movies were very good for the brand, with the mass market exposure that only Hollywood can bring; But then the split licensing situation between Fox and Marvel and uneven quality control did a lot of harm that ultimately led to the MCU and its take on Avengers ultimately becoming the public face of Marvel instead. You have to take a holistic view.

Possibly if X3 hadn’t been saddled with such an old fashioned notion of sequel making and a jobbing director it could have expanded the series into a bigger phenomenon than it was, but at least we can thank the films that Magneto and Professor X are household names now.

[TOTALITY]

I wonder, will they be willing to cover things the FoX-Men already did, under the pretense of "we'll do it better"? I'd love to see the Dark Phoenix Saga actually play out in the MCU, doing the story justice. I know with Spider-Man, they deliberately avoided trying to cover what the previous movies did, but that really worked against it because MCU Spidey relied way too much on the shared universe over his own mythos.

I feel like they might have said “we’ll do the Dark Phoenix Saga again, but better” if Fox didn’t already do that, too. In a way Fox’s last X-Men entry was like the movie version of salting the earth before the new caretakers got it. I mean, that’s probably not *why* they did it; it’s just that they probably couldn’t have done much worse if that *was* their goal.

Oh well. There are other stories. I wonder if they could even take elements of it — like the standoff with the Shi’ar to fight for one of their own — under circumstances other than “Jean driven mad by power.” It could even still be Jean, just with some other compelling thing that puts her in their crosshairs.

Or, you know, just borrow from any number of stories or do an entirely original one. (As most of the MCU movies are anyway, even as they draw from specific comics here and there)

[Killerbee911]

I wonder, will they be willing to cover things the FoX-Men already did, under the pretense of "we'll do it better"? I'd love to see the Dark Phoenix Saga actually play out in the MCU, doing the story justice. I know with Spider-Man, they deliberately avoided trying to cover what the previous movies did, but that really worked against it because MCU Spidey relied way too much on the shared universe over his own mythos.

It is not going to be hard to avoid telling the same stuff by virtue of focus on different characters. Plus Fox only told

God Love Man Kills
Dark Phoenix
Days of Future

Pieces of Whedon cure storyline,Some of Wolverine stuff Weapon X and.. Yeah that is about it. Those might be the three best known stories but they are several other stories that can be told.I think only Dark Phoenix out of those three really shouldn't be told again but they have told Dark Phoenix story so much that they can assume the audience knows about it and they can kind move around it like they did with Uncle Ben. If Jean Grey is called Phoenix in the MCU is anyone not going to know what happen to her in the back story?

[Hybrid]

Yeah, that's true. The MCU favors using the various aspects of the Marvel Comics lore to make original stories. It works a lot of the time, despite some stinkers (like setting up a fake Mandarin in IM3 just to do an extremely watered down version of the Extremis story arc).

Hmm, what stories in the comics have Fox never covered, that the MCU could borrow elements from? Maybe the Brood Saga could work, but I feel like the comes later because the X-Men facing aliens is not something you open them with.

[butterflykyss]

yes....
10char

[Hybrid]

Ooh, ooh! I know a series they can totally borrow elements from, and using an awesome character Fox neglected!



Like this would be perfect for a Disney+ miniseries. They may not even have to use Wolverine in it, and but take the general premise and link Kitty Pryde to ninjas plus having a Japan-set MCU story would be cool. If not a movie, definitely a Disney+ series.

[Beaddle]

It's not much of a complex discussion, from what I read from the top post, there seems to be a lack of substance here, Also a very MCU talking point narrative that has not merged well with the realty of things and things likely to come. Spiderman is the best proof of that. Do I think Fox damaged the brand? my answer is No because with fox , you have the good, the bad and the ugly.

The relationship between X-Men and Fox is the same realtionship Batman has with Warner Brothers. Their movies are a total mixed bag and you never know what to get but maybe you do know, now that people are more informed and people have an idea who is a talented film maker or who is not. Nolan left, Snyder came in, Batman movies started crashing. Mangold and Vaughn left, Kingberg stayed and xmen started crashing. Notice the pattern?

That been said, When x-men is concerned , Disney would be a bigger problem for them than Fox ever was as Disney would have issues telling their comics as they should on film and in the long run that would damaged the x-men brand more because most and if not all MCU movies are considered very manufactured, silly and shallow even by some of the people that made the best xmen films and to xmen's own source material. Fox at least had creative freedom and never had to dumb xmen. Disney dumbs marvel and have zero creative freedom. There has not been any MCU movie that has been good enough to say, this will be one of the best xmen movies because xmen had and has always had a higher measurement than the fun formulaic generic even very surprising childish and quite juvenile movies MCU films.

I think the reason we were all celebrating when Disney bought Fox, and when Feige teased X-Men for Phase 5 at SDCC, was not just the fact the we'll be seeing X-Men in the MCU. It's also that they'll be done better, they'll no longer be shafted in all media and stories, we'll get to see other parts of the mythos with a better continuity on the big screen, and they'll be able to interact with the others for a truly massive shared universe.

When you say we, you would have to be more specific, also relying more on and with the source material. Were people really celebrating or was that the shill media talking. A shill media we have seen more exposed with the sony/disney deal where ''we'' are apparently painting Sony as the bad guys even though that is not the actual truth. I noticed before the fox deal closed every newsfeed reported that ''comic book fans are about to rejoice''. a weird narrative to push because why would every comic book fan especially many marvel fans who already disliked disney for changing too much in the comics just to fit the movies, were complaining that mcu movies were becoming more like disney movies and also did not like how disney were making marvel cartoons want every marvel movie to follow the disney formula ? it was too contradictory to marvel itself. It also made zero sense as this was the same time when deadpool and logan were just freshly made and Fox had plans to do an X-Force, new mutants, X23 and multiple man movie. All 4 films that were not the usual disney formula movies. so when you say we, that was the shill disney media talking. They are still doing this spin with Spiderman leaving the MCU. Some of them now are just borderline telling lies such as spiderman needs the mcu to make a billion when sam raiami movies would have done that in 2019 with ease.

Also you have to look at another reality of were we are now in 2019. A significant amount of Spiderman fans and star war fans have mostly rejected disney take on their series, X-Men on paper is bigger to chew than both spiderman and star wars because their stories have more heavy content...mature content. I doubt ''we'' were all rejoicing. if you dont beleive me , look at the reaction people have had now spiderman is living disney and the MCU. no more iron boy we are rejoicing at that, I see it here alone on cbr spiderman forums Disney is on egg shells right now with star wars: the rise of skywlker. its a make or break film for them, So what real hope is there that Disney would do better than Fox after they mishandled spiderman and star wars even worse than sony and fox ever did when they had star wars and spiderman?

X-Men movies to me are kind of over. Things warped up clean with Logan. the only thing that would have helped this franchise after apocalypse and darK phoenix was if disney had not bough fox Kinberg got fired 3 years ago not in 2019. Mathew Vaughn stayed after letting it end with DOFP and both him and Christopher McQuarrie took over the franchise and created an xmen universe as planned.

https://screenrant.com/x-men-movie-u...her-mcquarrie/

For those not familar with Mcquarrie, he was the writer of the unusual suspects and he recently does the mission impossible films. One of the most talented people working in the business. I heard star trek fans wanted him to make the future trek films when he showed interest and star trek very much like xmen's true appeal is down to the content and intellectual philosophy beyond the trek space battles and mutants fights. X-Men is not meant to be brainless cgi driven entertainment like Avengers or GOTG or most of the mcu movies. X-Men in a way is the star trek of comic books. I have no doubt Mcquarrie would have done a good job as a xmen head runner with fox more than Feige at disney ever would. In a nutshell, I think that is what XMen would have needed after many mixed bags of movies, they would not benefit from the MCU formula anymore than spiderman has benefited from it.

Feige announced xmen phase 5 at SDCC but that is hype. X-Men does not need the type of hype that drives this mcu movies because the hype ends up with usually something empty. Please look at where Endgame is now in September? its another disposable MCU movie like all the others, the only thing it has going for it , its the fact that it is the highest grossing movie ever but even Avatar had that and Avatar unlike Endgame was a groundbreaking film that was still disposable.

Endgame is already even struggling in the genre of best time travel movies because the time travel writing in the film is quite poor. I am sure Disney would start pushing it for some type of awards but movies of substance don't even need that kind of push, the quality should do the talking itself. The top comic film this year would likely go to the Joker, a similar movie to Logan. in fact a similar movie to how most of the good xmen movies were made meaning no manufactured film making where the studio controls everything like the MCU.

It will be difficult to sell any xmen movie on the MCU hype train. xmen already has movies and xmen comics are already well established in geek culture. its an academia to itself. Look at the supposed hype that Spiderman had coming to the mcu, It evaporated fast because they never measured to the sam raimi spiderman movies.Disney star wars hype is even worse, Last Jedi broke down the hype system of Corperate thinking and studio Shilling. The only thing disney will give X-men is billion dollar movies. if you are looking for actual quality mature independently thought out movies that deserves respect that X-Men 1, X2, DOFP, Deadpool or Logan had, you wont get it with Disney X-Men formulaic movies, worse in a crossover cinematic universe the has now become the poster child for fake film film making.