Titans Season 2 Discussion Thread *Latest Episode Spoilers*

[Agent Z]

I'm sure plenty of people loved the first season, but I think the general consensus was that it was too uneven and self-serious for its own good. Hopefully, enough people like it well enough to get to where they are now, but I suspect the audience might have shrunk, not grown.

General consensus was that it was a good show. Not perfect but the good outweighed the bad. The complaints about self seriousness largely seemed to come from fans of the Teen Titans cartoons.

Season 1 was not a failure by any means.

[Batgrayson]

I hated S1 and really dislike Ric, but that's just me. However, I loved Donna, Hank and Dawn and I liked Jason. "Hank and Dawn" was easily the best episode from S1, whereas "Asylum" and "Dick Grayson" were the worst ones.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

General consensus was that it was a good show. Not perfect but the good outweighed the bad. The complaints about self seriousness largely seemed to come from fans of the Teen Titans cartoons.

Season 1 was not a failure by any means.

I don't think it was a failure either, but most agree the first season was uneven, which might keep viewers from coming back for season two, particularly after that iffy season opener. I hope I'm wrong, because I think this season has been pretty good so far.

As for the show's self-seriousness, I'm talking beyond fans of Teen Titans cartoons. If this show is going to become a big enough hit to justify enlarging its budget so they can show more cool stuff, like Gar actually being Beast Boy, then the show has to appeal to a much wider audience. Teen Titans Go does that because it's funny. That's a good thing because it brings in new fans of those characters. Titans certainly shouldn't try to be Teen Titans Go, but they also have to remember to not go too far in the other direction, otherwise they won't really feel those characters anymore. And casual audiences aren't much interested in dark superheroes these days, which even Marvel learned with the ever decreasing popularity of their Netflix shows, which had bigger problems than taking themselves too seriously, but didn't help.

If Titans season 2 sticks the landing, and keeps generating positive word of mouth, then maybe more people will be willing to forgive the unevenness of the first season, but I think there's a lot more completing for audiences' attention these days. With Desney+ on the horizon and more to come after that, I'm not sure if Netflix is going to be enough to keep Titans around, let alone increase its budget. DC Universe certainly isn't doing as well as Warners hoped.

Hell, there's no way to even know how well Titans is doing on Netflix, since they are notoriously stingy in letting anyone know what the viewer numbers are on their shows. I think it's doing well enough that they paid for the international rights for season 2, but who knows with them.

[Agent Z]

I don't think it was a failure either, but most agree the first season was uneven, which might keep viewers from coming back for season two, particularly after that iffy season opener. I hope I'm wrong, because I think this season has been pretty good so far.

As for the show's self-seriousness, I'm talking beyond fans of Teen Titans cartoons. If this show is going to become a big enough hit to justify enlarging its budget so they can show more cool stuff, like Gar actually being Beast Boy, then the show has to appeal to a much wider audience. Teen Titans Go does that because it's funny. That's a good thing because it brings in new fans of those characters. Titans certainly shouldn't try to be Teen Titans Go, but they also have to remember to not go too far in the other direction, otherwise they won't really feel those characters anymore. And casual audiences aren't much interested in dark superheroes these days, which even Marvel learned with the ever decreasing popularity of their Netflix shows, which had bigger problems than taking themselves too seriously, but didn't help.

If Titans season 2 sticks the landing, and keeps generating positive word of mouth, then maybe more people will be willing to forgive the unevenness of the first season, but I think there's a lot more completing for audiences' attention these days. With Desney+ on the horizon and more to come after that, I'm not sure if Netflix is going to be enough to keep Titans around, let alone increase its budget. DC Universe certainly isn't doing as well as Warners hoped.

Hell, there's no way to even know how well Titans is doing on Netflix, since they are notoriously stingy in letting anyone know what the viewer numbers are on their shows. I think it's doing well enough that they paid for the international rights for season 2, but who knows with them.

Reduction in viewership numbers happens with a lot of shows and doesn't always mean that people stopped liking the shows (though we can say that the bad reviews of Iron Fist season 1 did it's second season no favours). Keep in mind that Hulu's Runaways had far lower viewership numbers than the Marvel Netflix shows yet is getting a third season any way. The audience for the Marvel Netflix shows was still sizable despite decline in numbers which, again, happens with every show (https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhug.../#520ed61a196c). People are looking at the fact these shows were cancelled and not why they were cancelled because it serves as confirmation bias that "dark = bad". And TTG's continued ratings is due in part to the fact that Cartoon Network keeps inserting it into time slots.

And I can say without a doubt that the claims about this show being "too serious" were nothing but exaggerations. That's almost always the case when it comes to DC live actions properties these days. Or people just don't get the value of appropriate tone.

In short, I don't think Titans is going anywhere just yet. And if it is, I wouldn't be too quick to trust anyone who says it's because of the tone.

[manwhohaseverything]

Reduction in viewership numbers happens with a lot of shows and doesn't always mean that people stopped liking the shows (though we can say that the bad reviews of Iron Fist season 1 did it's second season no favours). Keep in mind that Hulu's Runaways had far lower viewership numbers than the Marvel Netflix shows yet is getting a third season any way. The audience for the Marvel Netflix shows was still sizable despite decline in numbers which, again, happens with every show (https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhug.../#520ed61a196c). People are looking at the fact these shows were cancelled and not why they were cancelled because it serves as confirmation bias that "dark = bad". And TTG's continued ratings is due in part to the fact that Cartoon Network keeps inserting it into time slots.

And I can say without a doubt that the claims about this show being "too serious" were nothing but exaggerations. That's almost always the case when it comes to DC live actions properties these days. Or people just don't get the value of appropriate tone.

In short, I don't think Titans is going anywhere just yet. And if it is, I wouldn't be too quick to trust anyone who says it's because of the tone.

Titans need wally. Then everything will be great. Wally being around will give great contrast, him being wise cracking, swashbuckling type. You can even do a jerk wally take like in his old comics, since "**** batman" is a thing.

[Agent Z]

Titans need wally. Then everything will be great. Wally being around will give great contrast, him being wise cracking, swashbuckling type. You can even do a jerk wally take like in his old comics, since "**** batman" is a thing.

Wally is not the wisecracking type. At least, he wasn't when he was with the Titans. That take is mostly an invention of JLU and Young Justice.

[Rac7d*]

Wally is not the wisecracking type. At least, he wasn't when he was with the Titans. That take is mostly an invention of JLU and Young Justice.

Beast was the only one makin jokes and it was to mask his depression and self loathing
Wally was under ravens spell and frustrated all the time. Fighting with robin who was civil but also frustrated all the time cyborg hated himself raven kept to herself for a long time. Donna held them together while starfire seem to be the only one genuinely having a good time

[Frontier]

Wally is not the wisecracking type. At least, he wasn't when he was with the Titans. That take is mostly an invention of JLU and Young Justice.

And his Flash tenure.

[Rac7d*]

And his Flash tenure.

prefer the titans in there early to mid 20s

the new teen titans were all angsty and jerkish

[Agent Z]

prefer the titans in there early to mid 20s

the new teen titans were all angsty and jerkish

No they were not. They had their issues but they weren't complete jerks.

[Rac7d*]

No they were not. They had their issues but they weren't complete jerks.

they were at times, i can't believe Starfire had to stop a meeting to ask them to stop making fun of her
I t was not until the second round with trigon I feel the team relaxed they were happier with themselves and a better team because of it

[Agent Z]

they were at times, i can't believe Starfire had to stop a meeting to ask them to stop making fun of her
I t was not until the second round with trigon I feel the team relaxed they were happier with themselves and a better team because of it

Like I said, they had their issues but they were overall good people.

[Rac7d*]

Like I said, they had their issues but they were overall good people.

Good people can be jerks

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Reduction in viewership numbers happens with a lot of shows and doesn't always mean that people stopped liking the shows (though we can say that the bad reviews of Iron Fist season 1 did it's second season no favours). Keep in mind that Hulu's Runaways had far lower viewership numbers than the Marvel Netflix shows yet is getting a third season any way. The audience for the Marvel Netflix shows was still sizable despite decline in numbers which, again, happens with every show (https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhug.../#520ed61a196c). People are looking at the fact these shows were cancelled and not why they were cancelled because it serves as confirmation bias that "dark = bad". And TTG's continued ratings is due in part to the fact that Cartoon Network keeps inserting it into time slots.

And I can say without a doubt that the claims about this show being "too serious" were nothing but exaggerations. That's almost always the case when it comes to DC live actions properties these days. Or people just don't get the value of appropriate tone.

In short, I don't think Titans is going anywhere just yet. And if it is, I wouldn't be too quick to trust anyone who says it's because of the tone.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I don't think the dark tone was the one overriding issue that prevented Season 1 from working completely, it was just one more problem that kept it from being as successful as it could have been. They seem to be balancing that tone much better in the current season, but it's still early yet. They could fumble the ball again with the finale, which I think would be something the show could not recover from.

It's never an either/or situation. It doesn't have to be Teen Titans Go or as dark as the Snyderverse. Some audiences gravitate towards lighter fare, while others gravitate towards darker stuff. However, to achieve enough mainstream success that would justify larger SFX budgets or avoiding cancellation, superhero shows need to figure out how to appeal to more viewers. Nobody knows what the numbers are for Titans right now in terms of production costs, and salaries that are going to keep going up each season, but they have to keep the viewers they have and produce a better season than last if they want to generate enough positive word of mouth to bring in more. As a result, they are taking the successes and failings of the first season and course correcting a tad towards a somewhat less dour show that focuses more of the characters that viewers loved interacting with each other right away, rather than the slow burn from the early episodes with little payoff at the end.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Wally is not the wisecracking type. At least, he wasn't when he was with the Titans. That take is mostly an invention of JLU and Young Justice.

Agreed. Wally wasn't very jokey in New Teen Titans (nor was Dick, who was originally funny, but Wolfman depicted much more as the stoic leader type), Gar was, but he certainly became much more of quipster once Waid started writing him, which JLU and Young Justice pushed even futher.