View Poll Results: Was Cyclops already over Jean before Emma came along?

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  • Yes

    27 20.77%
  • No

    58 44.62%
  • It's complicated.

    45 34.62%
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  1. #196
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    Rape implies a lack of consent. No one made Cyclops do anything and he wasn't forced or coerced into anything he didn't want to do. The willingness to throw Emma under the bus about this is...telling? Questionable? A sign of bad personal character?

  2. #197
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Rape implies a lack of consent. No one made Cyclops do anything and he wasn't forced or coerced into anything he didn't want to do. The willingness to throw Emma under the bus about this is...telling? Questionable? A sign of bad personal character?
    Cyclops consented because Emma said that it was part of therapy. That is not a full consent
    Later he sees that is wrong and consent, but it is hard to say how much it was influenced by the earlier enconter

    I think Cyclops is at fault too, of course
    Last edited by spirit2011; 09-12-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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  3. #198
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    There isn't nothing heavy handed on Divoce. they could just have Jean going with Xavier and then return to sign the papers and BOOM it is over.
    Quesada wanted to avoid divorce, because he likes childish story telling, he almost brought back Gwen. I think this childish behavior is what burn people on the big 2 comics.
    I didn't mean heavy handed, I meant it's a heavy topic, as in emotionally demanding to read. Anyways, I don't think what you're talking about it what was originally proposed. You're proposing three pages in an ongoing. My impression was that the poster was looking something deeper than a scene about signing some papers.

  4. #199
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    There isn't nothing heavy handed on Divoce. they could just have Jean going with Xavier and then return to sign the papers and BOOM it is over.
    Quesada wanted to avoid divorce, because he likes childish story telling, he almost brought back Gwen. I think this childish behavior is what burn people on the big 2 comics.



    I don't agree. going by this logic Scott never cheated on Jean. You can't have him cheat and then says it wasn't sex
    Well thats what you get when you compare comic logic to real life actions; you cant do it directly. There is no actual equivalent to telepathy and sex within someone's mind. Cheating is alot more than physical and Scott and Emma connected on a very intimate level, so yeah I would consider that cheating. Legally though? No laws were broken. He couldnt have gone to the cops and had her arrested. He chose to go to her. He chose to have mind sex with her and he chose to continue to see her. There is the possibility that she used her powers to force him into all of this but thats not something that Morrison made clear and is mere speculation by fans. People like to throw around that he was her patient as a breach of the law but again she isnt an actual doctor. She didnt take a hippocratic oath nor have a medical or psychiatry degree. What she did was unethical, not criminal

  5. #200
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I didn't mean heavy handed, I meant it's a heavy topic, as in emotionally demanding to read. Anyways, I don't think what you're talking about it what was originally proposed. You're proposing three pages in an ongoing. My impression was that the poster was looking something deeper than a scene about signing some papers.
    X-men was just dealing with genocide twice in the same decade, divorce can't be a heavier topic than that.

    Well if they didn't wanted all the drama, it could go that way if they wanted less drama.

    the thing is that editors and writers didn't wanted Jean alive, they wanted to push Scemma and Emma as th enext big things. Jean alive would not go well with these two
    you can't have a divorce if one of them is dead
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  6. #201
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    What she did wasn't even unethical. The only thing there, in page or subtext, is two humans being tempted to do something because they find each other hot and then doing it. Emma didn't owe it to anyone to not pursue Scott. There was no rape, nor was there confusion or telepathic manipulation.

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  9. #204
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    What she did wasn't even unethical. The only thing there, in page or subtext, is two humans being tempted to do something because they find each other hot and then doing it. Emma didn't owe it to anyone to not pursue Scott. There was no rape, nor was there confusion or telepathic manipulation.
    It was unethical. It wasnt morally correct to get involved with a married man and exploit the issues he was dealing with for her own sexual gratification. She was a coworker and agreed to use her powers to help him in the capacity of a therapist and she was unprofessional and took advantage of that. That was unethical

  10. #205
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    What she did wasn't even unethical. The only thing there, in page or subtext, is two humans being tempted to do something because they find each other hot and then doing it. Emma didn't owe it to anyone to not pursue Scott. There was no rape, nor was there confusion or telepathic manipulation.
    It was unethical, she said she was a sex therapist and mislead Scott
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  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    It was unethical, she said she was a sex therapist and mislead Scott
    He didn't just meet Emma for the first time that day.

  12. #207
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    He didn't just meet Emma for the first time that day.
    Sure, but he still trusted her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Well thats what you get when you compare comic logic to real life actions; you cant do it directly. There is no actual equivalent to telepathy and sex within someone's mind. Cheating is alot more than physical and Scott and Emma connected on a very intimate level, so yeah I would consider that cheating. Legally though? No laws were broken. He couldnt have gone to the cops and had her arrested. He chose to go to her. He chose to have mind sex with her and he chose to continue to see her. There is the possibility that she used her powers to force him into all of this but thats not something that Morrison made clear and is mere speculation by fans. People like to throw around that he was her patient as a breach of the law but again she isnt an actual doctor. She didnt take a hippocratic oath nor have a medical or psychiatry degree. What she did was unethical, not criminal
    I don't see problem in doing that, for me TP sex is just another form of sex. I remember when they retconned black canary ebign raped by being "only" happened on her mind. Me and others still thought it was horrific. I think it happened on Legion too and was considered rape
    He choose to have mind sex led by a false pretense, it really breaks narrative.
    They gonna never reveal she controlled him or even go deep in this abuse because people really like Emma as hero LOL

    If she was a fake therapist that still is a crime, and a therapist using it to get into a patient pants is a crime too
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  13. #208
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Rape implies a lack of consent. No one made Cyclops do anything and he wasn't forced or coerced into anything he didn't want to do. The willingness to throw Emma under the bus about this is...telling? Questionable? A sign of bad personal character?
    So does mind control...



    Just saying...

  14. #209
    Spectacular Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Emma constantly ignored Scott's rebuffs, and kept trying to blur the lines, and mitigate what she was doing..."it's just this...we're only doing this", because she herself wanted it to be more than "therapy" because she couldn't even admit to herself that she fell in love with Scott bloody Summers until Jean tore down all her self-deception. Who cares if Emma fell in love? That's not a free pass to put herself where she doesn't belong. Scott wasn't in love with Emma, and it took a cosmic level intervention to get him to be with Emma(which is disgusting for other, out of universe reasons)

    Scott is not wholly innocent of course, he and Emma both were warned by Henry(also Logan and the Cuckoos) ...that's how blatant they were with their "just thoughts"

  15. #210
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Sure, but he still trusted her.



    I don't see problem in doing that, for me TP sex is just another form of sex. I remember when they retconned black canary ebign raped by being "only" happened on her mind. Me and others still thought it was horrific. I think it happened on Legion too and was considered rape
    He choose to have mind sex led by a false pretense, it really breaks narrative.

    If she was a fake therapist that still is a crime, and a therapist using it to get into a patient pants is a crime too
    I think the key thing is that he had agency. The only thing Emma used her powers for was to orchestrate the scenarios for their sex sessions but she didnt mind control him. I dont beleive he was so broken that he was unable to make decisions for himself. He knew what he was doing was wrong as he acknowledged it, yet proceeded to do it anyway bc it felt good. He bares responsibility for that, not Emma. She seduced him and she was relentless in her advances, but he succumbed to that

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