View Poll Results: Was Cyclops already over Jean before Emma came along?

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  • Yes

    27 20.77%
  • No

    58 44.62%
  • It's complicated.

    45 34.62%
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  1. #421
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    When/How?
    I honestly don't remember.
    I odn't know how or any details. But I 've heard lots of rumors of him bringing her back, never researched because it makes no difference. After Maddie, Ororo, Jean is his fave character. he fought to bring her back first time.
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  2. #422
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Look, as somebody who has been in a position fairly similar to Jean's myself, there's no world in which abuse is better than cheating.
    ^THIS^

    I have personal experience with both these things. My mom cheating on my step-mom was bad. My dad throwing my mom down a flight of stairs, and punching her til he fractured her face was MUCH WORSE.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #423
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Claremont wrote the best Jean story, on eof the most iconincs on comics. He even tried to being her back when Morrison killed her, just a gentleman
    and he didn't bandoned the comics to go writer batman/superman. Morrison simply didn't cared



    At least that way Scott would be the bad guy instead of absolute leader of X-men
    You didn't answer my question.

    There is no planet where cheating is worse than assault, rape, or murder. Absolutely none.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  4. #424
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    You didn't answer my question.

    There is no planet where cheating is worse than assault, rape, or murder. Absolutely none.
    No, it's not. cheating isn't worse than murder, assault
    Last edited by spirit2011; 09-14-2019 at 08:16 PM.
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  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I odn't know how or any details. But I 've heard lots of rumors of him bringing her back, never researched because it makes no difference. After Maddie, Ororo, Jean is his fave character. he fought to bring her back first time.
    Claremont fought to bring her back in 1986? No, he wanted her to stay dead. And he wasn't ordered to kill her. It was hs and Byrne's idea to kill her. Oh, not from the start. But when Shooter nixed their original story, printed in PHOENIX THE UNTOLD STORY, he wanted her punished for eternity on some prison planet. They said, screw that, we'd rather kill her.

  6. #426
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    Claremont fought to bring her back in 1986? No, he wanted her to stay dead. And he wasn't ordered to kill her. It was hs and Byrne's idea to kill her. Oh, not from the start. But when Shooter nixed their original story, printed in PHOENIX THE UNTOLD STORY, he wanted her punished for eternity on some prison planet. They said, screw that, we'd rather kill her.
    Exactly

    Every interview with Claremont when the topic arises he says that Jean should stay dead.
    It would have been weird for him to try to bring her back.

  7. #427
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    Claremont fought to bring her back in 1986? No, he wanted her to stay dead. And he wasn't ordered to kill her. It was hs and Byrne's idea to kill her. Oh, not from the start. But when Shooter nixed their original story, printed in PHOENIX THE UNTOLD STORY, he wanted her punished for eternity on some prison planet. They said, screw that, we'd rather kill her.
    Claremont wanted Maddie to be Jean without memories, I guess it was a massive mess up by editorial that he had to screw over Maddie.
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  8. #428
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    I just finished re-reading the Morrison run last night. I wanted to do that before I posted in this thread because honestly I didn't remember much in exact detail. Having read it fresh I would say that Scott and Jean were both heading in different directions the way they were written, I don't think they were "over" each other, but they both made passes at other people (Emma and Logan) so to me the relationship was cracking. That however is part of marriage, some couples work through it, some ignore it and resent each other and some break up/cheat. I think they still loved each other and could have worked through their issues, but that's not the road Morrison wanted to explore. I voted "it's complicated."
    You brought back Wolverine

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  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Claremont wanted Maddie to be Jean without memories, I guess it was a massive mess up by editorial that he had to screw over Maddie.

    No, that isn't what he wanted. He did not intend for Maddie to be Jean.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    No, that isn't what he wanted. He did not intend for Maddie to be Jean.
    Actually, that's exactly what Claremont wanted and got when all was said and done via Louise Simonson...
    Last edited by Shreene; 09-14-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  11. #431
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    No, that isn't what he wanted. He did not intend for Maddie to be Jean.
    Maddie being Jean and recovering her memories would be so cool
    No cocoon, no deaths, no controversy.

  12. #432
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Actually, that's exactly what Claremont wanted and got when all was said and done via Louise Simonson...
    Sometimes things go back to us in different ways...

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  13. #433
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I just finished re-reading the Morrison run last night. I wanted to do that before I posted in this thread because honestly I didn't remember much in exact detail. Having read it fresh I would say that Scott and Jean were both heading in different directions the way they were written, I don't think they were "over" each other, but they both made passes at other people (Emma and Logan) so to me the relationship was cracking. That however is part of marriage, some couples work through it, some ignore it and resent each other and some break up/cheat. I think they still loved each other and could have worked through their issues, but that's not the road Morrison wanted to explore. I voted "it's complicated."
    Exactly. It's set up to be a tragic outcome because they lost the chance to work it out when the probably could have.
    But now they have a chance. Comics being comics where death is not permanent, I expect that even if Morrison killed Jean without any editorial interference, he expected her to be brought back eventually. He would not establish something like the Phoenix Egg otherwise.

    Scott loved Jean throughout the run. He was in a deep depression, not handling it well, and his stating he felt his marriage was a sham while in this state does not have to be taken at face value. He realized too late what he was losing as she died, as Logan basically said he would a few issues earlier. It was very complicated and human.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Jean said I love you several times to Logan while married.
    While we are making up our own X-Men stories, remember that time Storm made it rain on the sun?

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    While we are making up our own X-Men stories, remember that time Storm made it rain on the sun?
    Quoted for truth! Although, nowadays, Ororo can create and destroy entire solar systems at a whim while having tea with Eternity and Oblivion when she's not pretending to be a human mutant
    Last edited by Shreene; 09-14-2019 at 10:38 PM.

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