Was Cyclops already over Jean before Emma came along?

[lurkerforyears]

the biggest role Jean played in the destruction of her marriage was becoming Phoenix host, which probably wasnt her fault and there was nothing she could do about it. it made her too godlike, unrelatable and detached from regular mortals.

[Havok83]

the biggest role Jean played in the destruction of her marriage was becoming Phoenix host, which probably wasnt her fault and there was nothing she could do about it. it made her too godlike, unrelatable and detached from regular mortals.

IDA with that. Ive read Morrison's run and Jean was still very much a compassionate person. Detached from regular mortals? She was all about "regular" mortals as she went on a world tour connecting with mutants across the globe and that was after serving as headmistress to the children at the mansion. Even her flipping out at Emma when she learned about the affair showed that she was still very much in tune with human emotions. How exactly was she too godlike and unrelateable? Jean didnt become godlike until the very end of the run just as she was about to die and even then its hard to say she was too detached from everyone bc we only got that for a few panels and then she dies



This is the warm, friendly Jean about the "regular mortals" in New X-men

[CoCoBandz]

Being a bit passive? Well if she took the matters with heavy hand, readers would be like "she is opressing him".
This story is a no win for Jean it was made for her look bad



Scott could had stop it later, but the damage was already done.

Maybe she could have cooked for him more?

[Omega_DCD]

Honestly this keeps being brought up, and I dont see it. Jean was not some cold, distant robot in NXM. Just because Emma says it during their confrontation doesn't make it true. Jean tried to talk with Scott, she didn't ignore what was going on between them, but were interrupted by Xavier (Nova) outing himself on national TV...then it one crisis after the next.

[TheDeadSpace]

They both made the same mistake of confiding into others instead of themselves. The big difference is that one led into an affair and the other was stopped in its tracks by Logan.

[Ulfhammer]

Honestly all three of them were just screwed up!
1. Scott was suffering from PTSD and depression after being possessed by Apocalypse
2. Emma was doing everything she could to pretend she was unaffected by all her students who died in the classroom in Genosha when we know this almost permanently traumatized her.
3. Jean was struggling because the Phoenix had returned to her and it was impacting how she felt about things making her more passionate (angry and happy) or even a bit controlling and paranoid.

Scott and Emma were wrong to have the affair, but I do think they eventually fell in love with each other, and Emma probably fairly quickly since Scott was probably the nicest man she ever dated since Ian, and Ian turned out to be a racist anti-mutant jerk!

The whole situation was complex and the writers should have followed through all the way. Instead of killing Jean off, you have Jean and Scott get divorced. Perhaps Jean kicks Scott and Emma out of the mansion and they have to form an outside team so Scott and Emma go X-Force while Jean, Storm, and Logan take over New X-Men. Eventually some big thing happens that forces them to work together and though Jean doesn't completely forgive them she decides that kicking them out of the fold was a mistake and asks them to come back to the mansion again. Maybe Emma and Scott survive all this, maybe they break up, maybe Scott tries to reconcile with Jean, maybe Jean has moved on and started dating someone else.

In the end it could go a lot of ways, the mistake that makes everyone in this thread angry is that Jean was killed off instead of giving her a story too! Emma and Scott got their story out of this and it played out for a long time. Jean didn't get one and that's what is unfair about this entire story, Jean should have had an opportunity to grow and develop from the affair too!

I am perfectly ok with writers mixing things up and breaking up ships, I just hate when they kill off one of the characters because they don't want to explore both sides. That's fine if you don't want to write Jean, have Emma and Scott take over New X-Men and Jean decides to go elsewhere and joins up with X-Factor, X-Force, Avengers, Defenders, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc...

Maybe Jean is so pissed off that when Rachel comes back, she takes her daughter on a road trip and they join up with Cable and start a new X-Force together with Jean, Cable, Rachel, Domino, etc... They do their own thing separate from the X-Men under a different writer and they don't interact with Emma and Scott's New X-Men at all.

I agree that editorial took the easy way out by killing Jean off. There's plenty that was wrong with that, and more so why it was done. This whole triangle was born from a very questionable set of circumstances, it was perpetuated by warping Scott and Jean's relationship and history basically beyond recognition. Writing Jean out was equally ham handed, but fit the established pattern. This is an inevitable consequence of deciding on a story and discarding characterization to make it happen. It's hardly uncommon. This was just had much bigger consequences than most.

Now it's Hickman's mess, inherited from Rosenberg who did the only thing he really could with it. He decided that it didn't matter anymore. Given the time he had to work with which was basically a few pages in PR 5 and a few pages in UXM 22, I don't think there was any other way. Marvel, I think, mostly wants us to collectively forget about the whole thing, which in the end may end up being for the best. I highly doubt there's a resolution with the affair that would satisfying even the majority, let alone everyone. That said, that may yet explore that in the future, but I wouldn't count on it.

[lurkerforyears]

IDA with that. Ive read Morrison's run and Jean was still very much a compassionate person. Detached from regular mortals? She was all about "regular" mortals as she went on a world tour connecting with mutants across the globe and that was after serving as headmistress to the children at the mansion. Even her flipping out at Emma when she learned about the affair showed that she was still very much in tune with human emotions. How exactly was she too godlike and unrelateable? Jean didnt become godlike until the very end of the run just as she was about to die and even then its hard to say she was too detached from everyone bc we only got that for a few panels and then she dies



This is the warm, friendly Jean about the "regular mortals" in New X-men

Size aside, can a relationship between a woman and Galactus be possible? if Jean goes full Phoenix, any relationship is impossible because it becomes too unequal, like a relationship between a Dalit from India with the president of the USA. She could have destroyed and recreated Scott atom by atom, or known any secret of him just looking at him. And it's a relationship that involves a third being, the Phoenix. It's a relationship of a man with a woman with another being inside of her/possessing her.

[Havok83]

Size aside, can a relationship between a woman and Galactus be possible? if Jean goes full Phoenix, any relationship is impossible because it becomes too unequal, like a relationship between a Dalit from India with the president of the USA. She could have destroyed and recreated Scott atom by atom, or known any secret of him just looking at him. And it's a relationship that involves a third being, the Phoenix. It's a relationship of a man with a woman with another being inside of her/possessing her.

But you are talking about hypothetical about things which were not true during the run. That may have been a concern had Jean not survived in Planet X, but it most definitely wasnt the case for the bulk of the run, which is why I cant cosign with this notion that Jean's contribitution to the destruction of her marriage was bc she was too godly and detached from humanity. That was not the Jean that interacted with Scott at any point in that era. Maybe it would have been going forward but again, she died before we could find out

[spirit2011]

They both made the same mistake of confiding into others instead of themselves. The big difference is that one led into an affair and the other was stopped in its tracks by Logan.

jean pretty much said the same thing said to Logan to Scott. She was trying to reach to Scott and him didn't wanted it.
the mistake is only from Scott

But you are talking about hypothetical about things which were not true during the run. That may have been a concern had Jean not survived in Planet X, but it most definitely wasnt the case for the bulk of the run, which is why I cant cosign with this notion that Jean's contribitution to the destruction of her marriage was bc she was too godly and detached from humanity. That was not the Jean that interacted with Scott at any point in that era. Maybe it would have been going forward but again, she died before we could find out

Morrison wrote a very different story than the one that he claims that he wrote. I think Jean was a bit more colder, but that was true to most of x-men too.

[PsychoEFrost]

But you are talking about hypothetical about things which were not true during the run. That may have been a concern had Jean not survived in Planet X, but it most definitely wasnt the case for the bulk of the run, which is why I cant cosign with this notion that Jean's contribitution to the destruction of her marriage was bc she was too godly and detached from humanity. That was not the Jean that interacted with Scott at any point in that era. Maybe it would have been going forward but again, she died before we could find out

It wasn't that she HAD become that, it was that she was BECOMING that. She struggled with it quite a bit, including her chat with Charles before Fantomex arrived.

[PsychoEFrost]

jean pretty much said the same thing said to Logan to Scott. She was trying to reach to Scott and him didn't wanted it.
the mistake is only from Scott

He couldn't help with her problems because he was dealing with ultra severe ones of his own that SHE wouldn't help with. The fault lies with both of them.

[spirit2011]

He couldn't help with her problems because he was dealing with ultra severe ones of his own that SHE wouldn't help with. The fault lies with both of them.

Severe problems being that he wanted kinky sex and was afraid of her rejecting it. The fault definately doesn't lie on both

[Havok83]

It wasn't that she HAD become that, it was that she was BECOMING that. She struggled with it quite a bit, including her chat with Charles before Fantomex arrived.

Their discussion wasnt about her struggling with that or anything They discussed the increase in her powers (splitting up his mind and TK sensitivity) but Jean didnt express feeling detached or that humanity was feeling beneath her

Even if one were to accept that she was becoming what was said about her, why should she maligned for something that hadnt happened? Its a copout. Jean possibly becoming more godlike is not why her marriage crumbled.

[PsychoEFrost]

Severe problems being that he wanted kinky sex and was afraid of her rejecting it. The fault definately doesn't lie on both

Severe problems being extreme PTSD from his possession by Apocalypse.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Guys, a grown man deciding to cheat is never the fault of the man who cheated, the poor little lamb. Blame those devil wenches. Scarlet letters for all the harlots who were never doing enough for him!

I suppose it's still so talked about because it was so controversial. Not my cup of tea, though. Controversy, creating a buzz, rocking the boat at the expense of the integrity of the characters. Not for me. Sure as hell not when one of them is my favorite X Man.

It's still talked about because Jean Grey has never and will never get to react in any way to what happened. She's back and the books pretend the Morrison run didn't happen to her. I find the psychology behind that fascinating.