View Poll Results: How did you feel about this issue ?

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  1. #46
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Perhaps, but the most important word is “few”. As in, much less than the whole.

    Now we have Steve, though it seems GWW is trying to make room for her own little pet project. Hopefully her imminent departure keeps that from happening.
    Atlantiades will certainly be gone whenever GWW is and Superman is far preferable to them or how she's writing Steve. A few good issues doesn't mean their union itself was bad only that their book was.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I found the issue to be underwhelming for many of the reasons others have posted. Diana is an exciting character and to have her adventures be portrayed so unexcitingly is just sad.

    GWW has posited some interesting ideas in her run, but rarely delivers on the promise of those ideas in a meaningfully dramatic way. The only supporting character I'd like to see brought along for future stories by new writers is Atlantiades - they hold a lot of promise.

    Cale was the best in the issue, with shady and catty remarks to Diana. Cheetah needs to stop being snubbed in favor of Luthor as much as Diana does when she and Superman are written together.

    I'm ready for a writer who loves and understands Diana and wants to portray her world and characters in a more forceful, enriched, and sophisticated way. (I nominate myself to be their editor.) I hope Orlando has some grand plans or a new vibe or both from which he'll tell his stories. Diana, Steve, Etta, and Cheetah deserve as much.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Those weren't the only reasons they were together in the New 52. It had been teased for yeeeeears, even before the start of the Post-Crisis era. It was the culmination of all that teasing and we finally got to see what a relationship between the two of them could be like. I thought it was satisfying and for everyone that hated it someone else liked it.
    What other reasons are there? They're both invulnerable so they won't have to worry about each other the way they have to worry about those pesky humans Lois and Steve and can be a "power couple" together? They're like Gods among humans so they're "the only ones who can understand each other"? I don't find that narrative compelling, and given how quickly DC backpedaled on this relationship, neither did most of the readership.

    Post-Crisis Superman/WW teasing was... not a good look for WW. At all. The few Pre-Crisis teases almost always ended with them realizing it was a huge mistake.

    In any case, I'm still not a fan of her getting shipped off to be another established superhero's squeeze. She's her own superhero with her own family of associates, love interests, and proteges. It doesn't even have to be Steve Trevor, so few writers can write him well anyway. Just have her pick someone who isn't going to upstage her entirely, and who is going to keep her grounded in her own Wonderfamily instead of assimilated into another Superhero's supporting cast of characters. WW has always had this problem where she doesn't have her own solid supporting cast and is instead relegated to appearances in JL or in other superheroes' books.

    But I digress. With GWW's departure looming so close, I worry we're in for yet another "WW supporting cast overhaul". Every new WW writer wants to "reinvent" her so they can leave their mark instead of properly expanding upon the existing mythos. Girl can't have anything stable in her life, ever.

  4. #49
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnn View Post
    What other reasons are there? They're both invulnerable so they won't have to worry about each other the way they have to worry about those pesky humans Lois and Steve and can be a "power couple" together? They're like Gods among humans so they're "the only ones who can understand each other"? I don't find that narrative compelling, and given how quickly DC backpedaled on this relationship, neither did most of the readership.

    Post-Crisis Superman/WW teasing was... not a good look for WW. At all. The few Pre-Crisis teases almost always ended with them realizing it was a huge mistake.

    In any case, I'm still not a fan of her getting shipped off to be another established superhero's squeeze. She's her own superhero with her own family of associates, love interests, and proteges. It doesn't even have to be Steve Trevor, so few writers can write him well anyway. Just have her pick someone who isn't going to upstage her entirely, and who is going to keep her grounded in her own Wonderfamily instead of assimilated into another Superhero's supporting cast of characters. WW has always had this problem where she doesn't have her own solid supporting cast and is instead relegated to appearances in JL or in other superheroes' books.

    But I digress. With GWW's departure looming so close, I worry we're in for yet another "WW supporting cast overhaul". Every new WW writer wants to "reinvent" her so they can leave their mark instead of properly expanding upon the existing mythos. Girl can't have anything stable in her life, ever.
    I'm sorry but the Superman/Wonder Woman series gave us the BEST Wonder Woman story of the New 52.

    ww zf.jpg

    The book was like an oasis after trekking thru Azzarello's barren desert wasteland without wonder. It gave us the purple healing ray, invisible jet, a good exiled Amazon character in Hessia and brought back classic Wonder Woman rogues like Angle Man, Blue Snowman and Circe. There was also the scene of Wonder Woman actually acting like Wonder Woman and being an inspiration for young girls, as well as her acting like a human and having fun once in awhile...something we almost never get to see in her own book then or now.

    WW F1-D939-E5-1-FAC-4-D8-C-8107-D541-D7-D053-AB.jpg

    So all the doom and gloom about her only being Superman's squeeze and the sacrificing of her character to prop up his I'm immune to. When they're written well, they work well together.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I found the issue to be underwhelming for many of the reasons others have posted. Diana is an exciting character and to have her adventures be portrayed so unexcitingly is just sad.

    GWW has posited some interesting ideas in her run, but rarely delivers on the promise of those ideas in a meaningfully dramatic way. The only supporting character I'd like to see brought along for future stories by new writers is Atlantiades - they hold a lot of promise.

    Cale was the best in the issue, with shady and catty remarks to Diana. Cheetah needs to stop being snubbed in favor of Luthor as much as Diana does when she and Superman are written together.

    I'm ready for a writer who loves and understands Diana and wants to portray her world and characters in a more forceful, enriched, and sophisticated way. (I nominate myself to be their editor.) I hope Orlando has some grand plans or a new vibe or both from which he'll tell his stories. Diana, Steve, Etta, and Cheetah deserve as much.


    Something occurred to me today.

    Diana tells Steve she didn’t call him because “I don’t exactly have a cell phone.”

    But she DOES have full time communication links to the Justice League.

    So yes, she could have called him. She could have called pretty much anyone.

    Which the writer clearly forgot, or just chose to ignore in favour of making Steve look petty alongside the author’s pet character.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  6. #51
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    Diana's been in the outside world for at least a year and doesn't have a cell phone?

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    ...Derenick (and most of the other artists) have consistently been moving away from Atlantiades's more androgynous form, as designed by Xermanico, to instead make them more feminine.
    Alantiades looks increasingly like any other female character to me, which somewhat misses the point. Classically they had a female body and male genitals. You obviously can't represent that in the mainstream Wonder Woman comic. Personally, I think they ought to have given them a beard.
    Doctor Bifrost

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  8. #53
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Alantiades looks increasingly like any other female character to me, which somewhat misses the point. Classically they had a female body and male genitals. You obviously can't represent that in the mainstream Wonder Woman comic. Personally, I think they ought to have given them a beard.
    Both G Willow Wilson's vision for Atlantiades and Xermanico's way of drawing them also draws heavily on classical sources. See twitter exchange.

    If I were the editor, I'd have stern instructions to all the artists involved that they were to follow Xermanico's design.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Diana's been in the outside world for at least a year and doesn't have a cell phone?
    Diana has a cellphone, she used it in Wilson's first issue then promptly left it on her nightstand when she went off to rescue Steve. That's why I kind of miss the pop up com-link she used to inexplicably have in her bracelet, though how magical Amazon steel (silver/Amazonium/Feminum?) was retrofitted with a modern technological device I never knew.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Both G Willow Wilson's vision for Atlantiades and Xermanico's way of drawing them also draws heavily on classical sources. See twitter exchange.

    If I were the editor, I'd have stern instructions to all the artists involved that they were to follow Xermanico's design.
    When they first appeared it was easy to tell they were duel sexed due to the way they were built and their strong jawline, but all of that apparently went out the window. Given the nature of DC editorial, the bi-weekly schedule and rotating artists it wouldn't surprise me if some artists didn't know they weren't strictly female.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I'm sorry but the Superman/Wonder Woman series gave us the BEST Wonder Woman story of the New 52.

    ww zf.jpg

    The book was like an oasis after trekking thru Azzarello's barren desert wasteland without wonder. It gave us the purple healing ray, invisible jet, a good exiled Amazon character in Hessia and brought back classic Wonder Woman rogues like Angle Man, Blue Snowman and Circe. There was also the scene of Wonder Woman actually acting like Wonder Woman and being an inspiration for young girls, as well as her acting like a human and having fun once in awhile...something we almost never get to see in her own book then or now.

    WW F1-D939-E5-1-FAC-4-D8-C-8107-D541-D7-D053-AB.jpg

    So all the doom and gloom about her only being Superman's squeeze and the sacrificing of her character to prop up his I'm immune to. When they're written well, they work well together.
    Well said!!

  11. #56
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Thanks!

  12. #57
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Nevermind - sorry.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 09-26-2019 at 05:46 AM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I'm sorry but the Superman/Wonder Woman series gave us the BEST Wonder Woman story of the New 52.

    ww zf.jpg

    The book was like an oasis after trekking thru Azzarello's barren desert wasteland without wonder. It gave us the purple healing ray, invisible jet, a good exiled Amazon character in Hessia and brought back classic Wonder Woman rogues like Angle Man, Blue Snowman and Circe. There was also the scene of Wonder Woman actually acting like Wonder Woman...
    ... losing her temper, ripping holes in a ship that’s no real threat to her while it founders in a hurricane, getting trashed by Doomsday...

    She doesn’t even have her lasso in that frame.

    It was a bit better than Azzarello, but as a bar to jump over that is actually starting in a shallow grave.

    One thing Azzarello and GWW have in common- they invest more effort into the supporting cast than the title character.
    Last edited by brettc1; 09-26-2019 at 11:01 PM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

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