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  1. #181
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Leviathan is a miniseries. Not a line wide crossover. It’s not Doomed. I think you’re projecting about the rest. As for their importance, Lois and Clark are the founding characters of DC Comics. That they’d play a role in Doomsday Clock isn’t out of line and I’m not sure how you think that is “propping” things up. So nothing is being propped up. I mean, we were sold SMWW as some ultimate “power couple” that would shake the foundation of the DCU yet the relationship was ignored across the line pretty quickly. Was that propping them up as well?
    Hahahahah and that's exactly what they are !!!! So much has they shaken the foundations of DC that even today they are protagonists of passionate and warm discussions like this one! How long have we been without them? 2 or 3 years? And yet those who hate them cannot forget them or go without thinking about them one day ... a child of both in an AU is considered to be a threat and an offense to a canon couple for how long? 80 years? Power, my dear ... this is power. This, my dear, is success.

  2. #182
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    I never said it didn’t have meaning. I bought my husband a Superman/Lois Lane “happy birthday Husband” birthday card from Target. It had plenty of meaning to me personally. But it has literally nothing to do with the future success of the Superman franchise anymore than cheap Superman/WW pajama sets do. This isn’t how WB decides how to run their billion dollar media franchises.

    I hate SM/WW and I’ve bought Superman and Wonder Woman pjs for my niece and nephew. I only have a son but if I had a daughter I might do the same. Because it’s a male/female binary. (A dying concept anyway.) Siblings wearing Superman/WW pajamas is not some grand statement on the power of anything other than that’s just what they sell at Wal-Mart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    It's marketable because it's a male/female superhero set. Not because it's some grand statement about love and marriage. And the market for that type of stuff just isn't significant compared to the individual licensing. I dressed my son and daughter up in Superman and Wonder Woman gear, does that mean I want them to be siblings? Realistically it's not the indicator it's played off to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    I bought Superman and WW pjs for my niece and nephew. I guess that means I want them to get married or something. LOL. Or, it means, I like Superman and Wonder Woman as concepts and thought the Pjs were cute.

    Male/female binary.

    Wonder Woman is, of course, bisexual so it’s offensive that she’s only ever marketed in a male/female binary but better leave that for another day.
    So if something has meaning to YOU personally, that doesn’t give the right to dismiss what something means to others. It isn’t “cheap”. That’s still the negative connotation and being dismissive.

    The grand statement is that the pair goes far and beyond to different markets. It is significant given what it means to those certain people. The statement Superman and Wonder Woman set as individuals does have some type of connection whatever it may be. They are equally represented in a positive way of inspiration whether it’s a couple, kids, or an entire family even to the grandparents, doesn’t matter age, ethnicity, nor gender.

    Example of said marketability: https://www.spirithalloween.com/prod...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

    “Every Superman needs a Wonder Woman by his side! Now, you can be next to each other without having to leave! These adorable union suit robes are the perfect way to never lose your snuggle buddy!”

  3. #183
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Most of this thread has been some weird hate for the SMWW pairing in an out of continuity AU...and AU that established it had the SMWW pairing going on almost 20 years ago.

    Sometimes this fandom frustrates me. It's an elseworlds, SM and WW can be and do whatever in an elseworld, especially an elseworld that has had this pairing since Dark Knight Strikes Again.

  4. #184
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I think the lowest SM/WW ever went was 22k once. But this is neither here nor there. Things are getting massively off-topic as always. And no, that's not asking for this to become an appreciation thread. But there is a difference between constructive criticism of an upcoming project and/or a currently underway project and what's become spam at this point that he's a racist and a bigot. If that's how one feels that's how one feels. But we get it at this point. Its not about the content of the book(s) anymore be it actually discussion of the contents or speculation of such (as would have to be the case here). The same thing happens in the Year One threads to the point its hard to even discuss the content of a particular issue. Its tiresome at this point. So, might as well retire from yet another toxic thread.
    It never went even that low... I believe the very last issue which was nothing more than a filler was 28k.

  5. #185
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    You are cherry picking about sales if you can claim that Jimmy and Lois books are succesful and outselling batfamily and aquaman books but dismissing smww sales.
    They are selling about what I’d expect for the market. I don’t claim they are some raging success. They are doing well in the context. I don’t claim they are some revelation and line saving couple.it was a middling second tier book by the second year.

    SMWW did not need a crossover to boost. The complaint was the crossovers were a disruption. It’s been said multiple times, sales were never a problem for SMWW.
    The series ended up in the lower 40k when they changed direction under Tomasi. But it never went to the teens.
    The crossovers staunched the usual attrition sales got. It dropped down to the 20’s, i admit I was wrong about the teens, and charted outside the top 100 eventually.
    Last edited by Yoda; 09-17-2019 at 07:20 PM.

  6. #186
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    It never went even that low... I believe the very last issue which was nothing more than a filler was 28k.
    28k from a book about a couple that DC insisted on and worked hard to hurt since Convergence ... while the couple they tried so hard to sell sold less than SMWW.

  7. #187
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vakanai View Post
    most of this thread has been some weird hate for the smww pairing in an out of continuity au...and au that established it had the smww pairing going on almost 20 years ago.

    Sometimes this fandom frustrates me. It's an elseworlds, sm and ww can be and do whatever in an elseworld, especially an elseworld that has had this pairing since dark knight strikes again.
    thank you!!!!!

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deiasilva10 View Post
    28k from a book about a couple that DC insisted on and worked hard to hurt since Convergence ... while the couple they tried so hard to sell sold less than SMWW.
    And over 20 million people watched “Lois and Clark” in its 3rd season. What is it you think you are proving here?

    The comics market is what it is. A comic book about Superman and Wonder Woman, by your own statement the most powerful male and female superheroes in comics—did not light anything on fire sales wise. It wasn’t a failure but it also wasn’t some raging success. You can go round and round here. Fighting about sales in this market is pointless.

  9. #189
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I think the lowest SM/WW ever went was 22k once. But this is neither here nor there. Things are getting massively off-topic as always. And no, that's not asking for this to become an appreciation thread. But there is a difference between constructive criticism of an upcoming project and/or a currently underway project and what's become spam at this point that he's a racist and a bigot. If that's how one feels that's how one feels. But we get it at this point. Its not about the content of the book(s) anymore be it actually discussion of the contents or speculation of such (as would have to be the case here). The same thing happens in the Year One threads to the point its hard to even discuss the content of a particular issue. Its tiresome at this point. So, might as well retire from yet another toxic thread.
    I would like to support this post.

    And this is the thing. It is not criticism as they claim it is if it is the same reasons over and over and then it is becoming about the other Jon and Lois too who do not even exist in this verse. I think Mods need to monitor these threads. Just my opinion. It is a shame some people come on Year One to say...I like it and I am going now because I know what it is coming. It will be the same thing here when this comes out. People coming to say I hate Miller, I hate SMWW, even though they have no interest in the story, never bought it and never will and they will do it over an over to the point it derails a thread badly.

  10. #190
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    It’s an AU written by a creator with a racist and misogynistic history. Some of us don’t feel someone with that background has any business near Superman. And it’s already been discussed at length the way AU’s can and do cause damage to franchises.
    1. Didn't bring up the Frank Miller hate, which is something I'm also tired of reading about in the Year One thread...
    2. I was a part of that "AUs damage the franchise" debate and listed all the reasons why I think that's wrong. I ain't doing that again in this thread. Just know I disagree.
    Also, still has nothing to do with the SMWW hate in this thread...

    But, I definitely get fandom frustrating you. I’m frustrated that Lois Lane has been subjected to so much misogyny over the last 80 years and I’m frustrated that so many of the people who claim to love Superman the most treat the woman he loves and admires like garbage. And I’m frustrated that someone who has said and done the things that Frank Miller has done gets a pass from people.
    Yeah, I get that - but you can always just not read his work, and leave just a comment or two showing your opinion on the guy and move on. All the repeated Miller bashing again and again and again kind of sucks the joy out of discussing the books for those of us who do want to read and enjoy them,
    Last edited by Vakanai; 09-17-2019 at 07:32 PM.

  11. #191
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    They are selling about what I’d expect for the market. I don’t claim they are some raging success. They are doing well in the context. I don’t claim they are some revelation and line saving http://couple.it was a middling second tier book by the second year.

    The crossovers staunched the usual attrition sales got. It dropped down to the 20’s, i admit I was wrong about the teens, and charted outside the top 100 eventually.
    The series hit the 20s only for 2 or 3 issues After the book was derailed by Truth and wasn't even about relationship anymore. The issues in the 20s didn't have variants. They were an exception anyway. The lowest the series went were still the 30s.

    Point being derailment, drastic change in direction and not having them as a couple anymore brought down the sales, not the couple themselves.

    Also the series sold better than the trinity book that replaced it without having the sales boost of a relaunch. SMWW debuted after 2 years of the new52 relaunch. And trinity had the lower price of 2.99 while SMWW was 3.99

  12. #192
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    And over 20 million people watched “Lois and Clark” in its 3rd season. What is it you think you are proving here?

    The comics market is what it is. A comic book about Superman and Wonder Woman, by your own statement the most powerful male and female superheroes in comics—did not light anything on fire sales wise. It wasn’t a failure but it also wasn’t some raging success. You can go round and round here. Fighting about sales in this market is pointless.
    20 million people watched "Lois and Clark"... who cares? These people obviously didn't buy comics ... it's easier to watch tv at home ... If there was a chance of an episode where SM and WW met or his participation in her show we would have to compare their impact on the TV screen and see if it would generate a large audience. If we can't compare, it's hard to analyze which couple has the biggest impact.

    "Did not light anything on fire sales wise. It wasn’t a failure but it also wasn’t some raging success"... thank you for finally admitting it wasn't a failure ... well about a raging success ... they sold the same or even more than the main couple for some time, the couple established for over 80 years ... yes that's success .

  13. #193
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Can we admit that Golden Child is a briefly previewed, pending story with only one line associated stories, and skip all the off topic rants? If not I think this all can wait until we get a legit preview if not the actual story.
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  14. #194

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    I thought, this thread was about frank miller's new comic the golden child. Sales of superwonder or clois is irrelevant . Shouldn't we stay on topic?

  15. #195
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Let me make one thing clear - just because this isn't an Appreciation thread doesn't mean you are free to personally attack/insult creators. This is a direct violation of the forum rules and regulations:

    TREAT COMIC BOOK PROFESSIONALS WITH RESPECT

    The CBR Community is a safe space for creators or other industry professionals to stop by the site and interact with readers and fans. Whether they’re here in person or just a name on a page of a comic or article you’ve read, they’re all to be treated with respect. Having read or purchased a product someone has worked on does not mean you’re permitted to talk about them however you like. Insults, personal attacks and threats will not be tolerated. There are times when users lose sight of the line between the person and the work; criticism of the work is welcome, insults to the creator of the work are not. The same rules of civility apply and insulting behavior will not be tolerated.
    So knock it off.

    Time to get back to the discussion of the preview of the new book, please.
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