View Poll Results: Should they change Magneto's race

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  • Yes: Make him Black

    38 20.43%
  • No: Keep him Jewish White

    148 79.57%
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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Unrecognizable as Magneto and the stick that anti-progressives and bigots will beat us with. There is a long history of Jewish and black peoples working together to defend the civil rights of all. But you folks want to take away one of the more prominent Jewish characters in a misguided effort to increase diversity. But you won’t. At best, it’s a lateral. At worst, it generates resentment. I want good black characters. I don’t need good characters to be color swapped to achieve this. Technically we already had black Magneto in Killmonger. Rehash isn’t necessary.
    Despot in Wildstorm is the closest thing to a "Black" Magneto in comics..not Killmonger. Lol.

  2. #377
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    Technically this is all unnecessary because Captain America is older than Magneto and they arent changing shit about him. He's still the blonde hair, blue eyed do gooder he's always been.

  3. #378
    Spectacular Member Leirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleDiMera View Post
    Technically this is all unnecessary because Captain America is older than Magneto and they arent changing shit about him. He's still the blonde hair, blue eyed do gooder he's always been.
    The problem is that Cap being in ice is an iconic part of his origin story. Magneto was deaged by Mutant Alpha, an unknow character in a forgettable story.

  4. #379
    Ninpuu - Shinobi Change! Striderblack01's Avatar
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    Magneto's primary purpose in the X-men story is to serve as a more violent foil for Xavier and his dream of peaceful coexistence.

    His motivation to act in this capacity in the books is greatly explained by his backstory as a Jewish survivor of WWII.
    It's a strong connection, that instantly informs the reader of the reasons for his methods, his resolve, and why he feels justified in pursuing a mutant supremacy.
    He's a sympathetic villain.

    ...kinda.

    He's also a genocidal maniac.
    (that Jewish people are really attached to?!? if the posts about erasure are valid)
    If you're a fan of Book-Neto, I sympathize.

    The problem is this - WWII ended in 1945.
    That's over 70 years ago. And yet Erik is this ripped, physically imposing figure in the books.
    And the explanation we get - something, something, metabolism, and magnetism - is extremely weak.
    While this kind of hand-waving works in the books, I can understand the reluctance to embrace it in film.

    I'm not going to say that WWII is not relevant anymore - America is still obsessed with it and how we 'saved the world'.
    But with each year that passes, with each new generation, one has to wander when its significance will fade from the American psyche.
    I really can't blame anyone involved in this movie for the desire to update.

    The X-men are about inclusion, and Xavier's dream is about acceptance.
    It can be challenged in any number of significant ways.
    Characters are in service to the story - it's the message that's important.
    As long as they stay true to that, I'm good.

    So, I voted yes.




    This topic is fascinating.

    Fascinating because it touches on so many different issues:

    • Hollywood's long history of whitewashing roles
    • Hollywood's current disparity of POC characters & leads
    • The debate of re-contextualizing an established character vs creating a new one
    • Diversity in our media - 'forced' vs earned; meaningful vs 'empty' (tokenism)
    • Character vs Story - which is the most important? which is the most entertaining?
    • What are a character's essential traits? Their motivations? How do they fit in the story?
    • How closely should adaptations follow the source material?
    • Fandom & Entitlement

    The list goes on.

    What's not so fascinating is our level of discourse.
    Our ability to discuss these facets is greatly stymied by our hard-headed politics.
    Which the casting of a role in an upcoming movie apparently is.

    "Well, what if they made Black Panther WHITE?! Can't they just make a new black character?!! LEAVE [CHARACTER] ALONE!"

    Which brings me to this.

    These simplistic whingings are often extremely popular in threads like these.
    And while some of these questions have answers, answers that are complex, offered in the good hopes of open-minded discourse, they are often deemed 'unsatisfactory' and usually fall on deaf ears.
    It's because they do nothing to address the underlying problems that led to these childish wailings in the first place.

    Self-indulgent faux-rage. Fan Entitlement. Entrenched politics.

    In this day and age, people like getting angry for fun and they have so many different ways and outlets to voice their anger.
    It's largely masturbatory, but may feed into some deeper issues. Faux-rage really servers as a catalyst/exacerbator for the other two.

    Entitlement. This is a big one. I, myself, am guilty.
    Our voices and opinions matter, dammit! Get it right!
    We love these characters too much. We feel like we own them. We want them to be expressed in a way that is faithful to our specific interpretation.
    We want to do all we can to protect our favorite characters.

    ...which is folly, when the true nature of stories and story-telling is taken into account. Or just capitalism.

    While it is true that if a negative reaction is big enough, companies can reverse course - we don't own these characters. A giant corporation does.
    What we own are some books with stories, and the feelings we get after reading them.

    Characters matter.
    As I said before, if you love Book-Neto, I sympathize with you. But characters are also a vehicle for the story.
    Instead of gripping so tightly to book accuracy, perhaps we should broaden our scope and focus on the compelling themes that drew us to the books in the first place.

    Which leads to the biggest culprit - politics.
    It's hard for me to be objective on this topic, because I'm a fan open-minded discourse. There is a (necessary?) culture war being fought in the US.
    However, the politics that engender the wailings above are either facetious and intellectually dishonest, or actually stupid.

    I've seen this type of discussion play out so many times.
    A complex problem exists and a not-so-perfect solution is implemented.
    Group A hates it, and lambastes it with ridiculous charges. Group B defends their rationale by pointing to the problem.
    Group A retaliates by denying the problem exists, or is overblown, and/or that somehow Group B is the real problem.

    Every. Time.

    "Well, what if they made Black Panther WHITE?!

    Funny thing is, I can think of a scenario where 'White' Panther actually works.
    But that's not the point of these 'questions'.

    These are trollish prattlings of a mind that, in this case, wants to 'own the libtards and PC culture'.
    The political situation in the US is dire, and I have no answers for it.

    I just wish the conversations were honest and better. Because then, we might actually get somewhere.
    Last edited by Striderblack01; 09-17-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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  5. #380
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    ^^^^^^ you are fucking awesome.

  6. #381
    Astonishing Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Why can't we just change Charles Xavier to African American, or Hispanic, or Native America, or Asian American. Xavier was always American, his history is entirely American, the only part of him that is cultural is that he comes from a wealthy family, that's it.

    Magneto's origin is forever linked to the Holocaust and oppression of Jewish people. He already represents a minority culture, why do we need to take it away from him. After World War II Magneto was working as a Nazi Hunter and he ran into the High Evolutionary who hadn't encountered a mutant before so the High Evolutionary put Magneto into suspended animation so he could understand what mutants are. He releases Magneto into the modern world, the man who fought Nazi's through his 20's is now in a modern world where there are evil men trying to oppress mutants.

    It's not that hard to link Magneto to the Holocaust and explain why he is alive. Magneto already comes from race/culture that has been oppressed for at least 2000 years. Why can't he stay being from that culture? Why does he have to be from a different culture?

    People aren't going to be confused if he is still linked to WWII, they just have to have a quick explanation and then it's done. It's not like it hasn't been done in the MCU already, Captain America is still alive, Bucky Barnes is still alive, the Red Skull is technically still alive just trapped on that world where the Soul Gem was stored. That's three people from WWII who are still alive. It's not that hard to find a quick and easy explanation why Magneto is still alive.

    Some characters in Marvel are already from under represented minorities.

    Heck, there is no reason why Wolverine can't be from an African background, there were free Black People in Canada after the War of Independence. Some of them even lived on the Canadian prairies, so it's not hard to say that Wolverine could be African Canadian.

    Personally I actually have no issue with certain non-minority characters being swapped. Nothing really identifies Professor Xavier as anything more than being an arrogant snob and any actor can portray that.

  7. #382
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    ^^^^^^ you are fucking awesome.
    Indeed. Striderblack offered the most even response to this and other debates, while also providing a framework for argument.

    There are several having very emotional responses born out of nostalgia and adherences. There are several spinning argumentation outside the bounds of the conversation.

  8. #383
    Fantastic Member PhoenixThanos's Avatar
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    Magneto is white, Professor X is white, Storm is black, Colossus is russian, honestly leave these characters as is.
    Otherwise if Professor Xavier and Magneto are black then Storm should be white.
    Hahaha lets see how that goes down.
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  9. #384

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    Quote Originally Posted by Striderblack01 View Post
    Magneto's primary purpose in the X-men story is to serve as a more violent foil for Xavier and his dream of peaceful coexistence.

    His motivation to act in this capacity in the books is greatly explained by his backstory as a Jewish survivor of WWII.
    It's a strong connection, that instantly informs the reader of the reasons for his methods, his resolve, and why he feels justified in pursuing a mutant supremacy.
    He's a sympathetic villain.

    ...kinda.

    He's also a genocidal maniac.
    (that Jewish people are really attached to?!? if the posts about erasure are valid)
    If you're a fan of Book-Neto, I sympathize.

    The problem is this - WWII ended in 1945.
    That's over 70 years ago. And yet Erik is this ripped, physically imposing figure in the books.
    And the explanation we get - something, something, metabolism, and magnetism - is extremely weak.
    While this kind of hand-waving works in the books, I can understand the reluctance to embrace it in film.
    hard to take you seriously when you don't even know the basics. Magneto was de-aged and then aged to his physical prime. it has nothing to do with his metabolism or mutancy. and you're just making an argument to not use the character in the movies going forward. and that suits me perfectly fine. they aren't going to out-do what came before; at least where Magneto is concerned. but it makes zero sense to just change Magneto into a different character. he saw so much use in the Fox films because of the strength of his story. you can get away with changing someone like Pyro (though i'd argue that they turned in a less interesting version). Magneto's on another level.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  10. #385
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    So I guess the consensus so far is:

    1) If you keep the WW2 origin, leave him white
    2) If no WW2 origin, go nuts?
    "Cable was right!"

  11. #386
    The Kid 80sbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    Magneto is white, Professor X is white, Storm is black, Colossus is russian, honestly leave these characters as is.
    Otherwise if Professor Xavier and Magneto are black then Storm should be white.
    Hahaha lets see how that goes down.
    You should REALLY read Striderblack's post.

  12. #387

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    i don't know about consensus. i just don't think they should use Magneto unless he's going to be Magneto. take race out of the equation for the moment. i'm not even for making him a jewish mutant who didn't experience the camps. it's the difference between some black lives matter weekend protester and someone who survived the jim crow south.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  13. #388

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    on a side note, the real difference between Magneto and Professor X was overt and covert militarism. Professor X sold some kids a dream of peaceful coexistence. meanwhile, he was using telepathy to wipe memories, hiding everyone in a fortress disguised as a mansion, and using child soldiers. Magneto just took a bunch of thugs off the streets (the ones too ugly to hang out at Harry's Hideaway) and took the fight to humanity.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  14. #389
    Master of Magnetism Magneto's Avatar
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    At this point, if Magneto doesn't have his WWII origin, just use another character. Marvel is a fantasy world, there's so many deus ex machina they can use to have him keep that origin. Making a black character white or vice-versa is never a good idea.

  15. #390
    Astonishing Member AHRNIHAL's Avatar
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    Well, if magneto is black in MCU there goes chance of him being Wanda's father.
    "...For you to die you would have to be forgotten and no one forgets a founder of a nation..."

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